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Natural Environment How Human History has been impacted by the environment, science, nature, geography, weather, and natural phenomena


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Old August 19th, 2017, 06:46 AM   #41

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If you don't have a copy, I recommend "Birds of Stone" by Luis Chiappe and Meng Qingjin. Describes, and with many photos, all the pre K-Pg Chinese avian fossils found up to the publication of the book, only last year. It is the essential non hyper scientific reference book on the Jehol fossils.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #42
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If you don't have a copy, I recommend "Birds of Stone" by Luis Chiappe and Meng Qingjin. Describes, and with many photos, all the pre K-Pg Chinese avian fossils found up to the publication of the book, only last year. It is the essential non hyper scientific reference book on the Jehol fossils.
Magnificent! This must be a recent book, as I hadn't heard of it.

Can it be read online or downloaded? Can't wait to see this.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 07:55 AM   #43

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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Birds-Stone...birds+of+stone

There is an interesting one star comment, probably from one of Ken Ham's acolytes.
It's expensive, and due to the many photos, entirely unsuitable to download, even though the option for a Kindle version exists. If it's too expensive, I guess there will be a cheaper paperback edition in a few years, but with the rate of discoveries, it may be way out of date by then.....
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Old August 20th, 2017, 02:56 AM   #44
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Birds-Stone...birds+of+stone

There is an interesting one star comment, probably from one of Ken Ham's acolytes.
It's expensive, and due to the many photos, entirely unsuitable to download, even though the option for a Kindle version exists. If it's too expensive, I guess there will be a cheaper paperback edition in a few years, but with the rate of discoveries, it may be way out of date by then.....
Sigh! I guess I'll just have to ask for an autographed copy...
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Old August 21st, 2017, 07:46 AM   #45

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While we await any new startling discoveries, I just want make a feeble excuse to do an off topic post, though still about dinosaurs. I want to complain bitterly about the lack of feathers on dinosaurs in the forthcoming movie "Jurassic World: Lost Kingdom". I intend, with countless thousands of other dino nerds, to picket any cinema showing this travesty of a movie. But will probably buy the Blu-Ray anyway

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Old August 22nd, 2017, 01:48 AM   #46

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Not too far back. Just the two you referenced. The scansoriopterygidae and Paraves. Since they are the best to search and make our way. But lets not look far back.
(Sorry if I replied late. Was outside)
I just needed to return to Scansoriopterygidae and the base of Paraves. This is going to add further confusion I know, however, at the moment scansoriopterygids usually appear on the gladogram at the base of Aves, but, and going by a combined cladogram presented by Gerald Mayr in "Avian Evolution", the scansoriopterygids are placed on the oviraptor branch, and also as just before Paraves, and presumably a progenitor of the basal Paraves, as well as their normal postition with Aves.

That it is possible to put scansoriopterygids on three places of the gladogram, means, if nothing else, that it is probably basal to Paraves, but not alone of course. Mayr posits that Oviraptorosauria could be moved from their own group just outside Paraves, to within Paraves. Mayr also discuses the hypothesis that oviraptors may in fact be secondarily flightless, their forearms being degenerated wings like those of ostriches. If true, this would push back the earliest flying dinosaurs even further.

Personally I go with the view that no matter where oviraptors come into the frame, there were multiple lines, and that while it all looks neat on a gladogram, in reality we have curling and twisting strands of spaghetti, and there are many maniraptors that can sit at the base of Paraves, some more advanced, or weird, than others.
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Old September 2nd, 2017, 10:03 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
I just needed to return to Scansoriopterygidae and the base of Paraves. This is going to add further confusion I know, however, at the moment scansoriopterygids usually appear on the gladogram at the base of Aves, but, and going by a combined cladogram presented by Gerald Mayr in "Avian Evolution", the scansoriopterygids are placed on the oviraptor branch, and also as just before Paraves, and presumably a progenitor of the basal Paraves, as well as their normal postition with Aves.

That it is possible to put scansoriopterygids on three places of the gladogram, means, if nothing else, that it is probably basal to Paraves, but not alone of course. Mayr posits that Oviraptorosauria could be moved from their own group just outside Paraves, to within Paraves. Mayr also discuses the hypothesis that oviraptors may in fact be secondarily flightless, their forearms being degenerated wings like those of ostriches. If true, this would push back the earliest flying dinosaurs even further.

Personally I go with the view that no matter where oviraptors come into the frame, there were multiple lines, and that while it all looks neat on a gladogram, in reality we have curling and twisting strands of spaghetti, and there are many maniraptors that can sit at the base of Paraves, some more advanced, or weird, than others.
It's hard to find the common ancestor. But i guess you're right about it.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 07:58 PM   #48

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvidius View Post
I just needed to return to Scansoriopterygidae and the base of Paraves. This is going to add further confusion I know, however, at the moment scansoriopterygids usually appear on the gladogram at the base of Aves, but, and going by a combined cladogram presented by Gerald Mayr in "Avian Evolution", the scansoriopterygids are placed on the oviraptor branch, and also as just before Paraves, and presumably a progenitor of the basal Paraves, as well as their normal postition with Aves.

That it is possible to put scansoriopterygids on three places of the gladogram, means, if nothing else, that it is probably basal to Paraves, but not alone of course. Mayr posits that Oviraptorosauria could be moved from their own group just outside Paraves, to within Paraves. Mayr also discuses the hypothesis that oviraptors may in fact be secondarily flightless, their forearms being degenerated wings like those of ostriches. If true, this would push back the earliest flying dinosaurs even further.

Personally I go with the view that no matter where oviraptors come into the frame, there were multiple lines, and that while it all looks neat on a gladogram, in reality we have curling and twisting strands of spaghetti, and there are many maniraptors that can sit at the base of Paraves, some more advanced, or weird, than others.
Funny that I am using a magpie as my avatar here; check for any resemblance to non-avian dinosaurs.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 01:10 AM   #49

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Avian dinosaurs moved on in external appearance of course, but you can see what a lot of paleoartists have used as their base line for recreating non avian "raptors". At 0:40 is a good side view to show to an extent the basic bauplan. Straighten the legs a bit, give it claws instead of talons, stick a toothed snout on the front and give it a longer tail and a few less feathers on it's wings and there is a "raptor". I know we shouldn't extrapolate too much from the present into the past, but I think the differences between a non avian and an avian "raptor", if we saw them in real life, may be less than we think if we saw both on the ground with their wings folded. The eagle with it's wings fully extended on the down stroke was well observed by Ancient Egyptians without the benefit of slomo cameras, and it can be seen why they used that impressive view of eagles and it's cousin the vulture, and falcons of course.


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Dakaotaraptor
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Last edited by Corvidius; October 19th, 2017 at 02:46 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 03:25 AM   #50

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Juvenile Deinonychus and Bald Eagle
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