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Natural Environment How Human History has been impacted by the environment, science, nature, geography, weather, and natural phenomena


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Old December 7th, 2017, 12:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Keen Edge View Post
Just look at what they have to defend themselves against as compared to wild horses.
Except for crocodiles, which animals would that be?

zebras
lions
leopards
spotted hyenas
modern humans
african wild dogs
crocodiles

wild horses
lions
leopards
spotted hyenas
modern humans
wolves
brown bears
asian black bears
eurasian sabertoothed cats
neanderthalers
possibly red dogs


And those predators mentioned for horses are only those, the horses met in todays Germany. In other parts of the world they met animals like jaguars (south america), dire wolfes (north america) or tigers (asia).

Last edited by Otto I; December 7th, 2017 at 12:43 PM.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 10:51 AM   #12

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Originally Posted by Otto I View Post
Except for crocodiles, which animals would that be?

zebras
lions
leopards
spotted hyenas
modern humans
african wild dogs
crocodiles

wild horses
lions
leopards
spotted hyenas
modern humans
wolves
brown bears
asian black bears
eurasian sabertoothed cats
neanderthalers
possibly red dogs


And those predators mentioned for horses are only those, the horses met in todays Germany. In other parts of the world they met animals like jaguars (south america), dire wolfes (north america) or tigers (asia).
Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

I just had to say that.

You've got a good point though.

Also, I think as far as horses and zebras are concerned, alligators and crocodiles are probably about the same thing.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 05:32 PM   #13

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Just wondering, cud zebra be crossed with pony to gv fertile offspring?
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Old December 13th, 2017, 08:23 PM   #14

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Just wondering, cud zebra be crossed with pony to gv fertile offspring?
Zebra have been crossed with donkeys, horses, ponies numerous times--the offspring are always either sterile, or of drastically reduced fertility or malformed in some way. (The chromosomes don't match). Even crosses between the three main Zebra species are rarely viable. Crosses between male Zebra and female Donkeys--a Zonkey, was a bid of a fad back in the 1970s and plenty were to be found on farms and Guest ranches in South Africa and Zimbabwe.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 08:29 PM   #15

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Thank you, Scaeva.
Is there any evidence Zebras were used to pull chariots?

Did horses reach South Africa before the wheel?
Horses arrived in South Africa in 1653--the same time as the wheel. Possibly the Portuguese had horses in Mozambique earlier, but there is no evidence of such.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 08:43 PM   #16

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This is an old chesnut and often comes up when someone wonders why there was never a Zulu Cavalry or chariot army.
A Zebra may be of the horse family, but it ain't a horse. As modern humans and Zebra have shared the same space for nigh on 75,000 years one may wonder why the locals never thought of it--maybe they did, but the zebra was never domesticated, nor was the African Elephant, nor Cape Buffalo, nor Jackals or African wild dogs even though their cousins were in Eurasia----that's because they are WILD animals and while any and all can appear tame when brought up with humans--they can revert to an aggressive wild state in a flash, as many people who have kept wild animals as pets (They was a woman in Limpopo who brought up a baby hippo a few years ago--they even made a documentary about her, sure enough--it got irritated one day and bit her in two). Zebra, especially males, can be quite violent, especially if their females are threatened (they run a harem) and females also have a hierachy with an "alpha" who will attack the junior females if they get out of line.

Why most African animals cannot be fully tamed is a good subject for speculation, maybe they have spent too long as prey to humans and others or maybe no one has had the patience to spent a thousand years of trial an error to make them docile.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 02:33 AM   #17
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Zebra have been crossed with donkeys, horses, ponies numerous times--the offspring are always either sterile, or of drastically reduced fertility or malformed in some way. (The chromosomes don't match). Even crosses between the three main Zebra species are rarely viable. Crosses between male Zebra and female Donkeys--a Zonkey, was a bid of a fad back in the 1970s and plenty were to be found on farms and Guest ranches in South Africa and Zimbabwe.
They use Zonkeys in TJ too pull tourist carts around from bar too bordello.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 04:59 PM   #18

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without getting too far into the genetic weeds on this, Przewalski is NOT an ancestor to the horse. https://www.researchgate.net/publica...logeny_Studies
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

while they are close enough to have fertile offspring, Przewalski’s horses and domestic horses have a different number of chromosomes (66 for the former, compared with 64). As for Zebras, people tend to forget that donkeys were domesticated, onager and kiang (types of asses) were also present and plenty of evidence exists for early use of onager prior to use of horses. it's much more likely that the Tarpan, which became extinct in historic times was an ancient horse.

the big difference is that a zebra is not as big as a horse. it's more like a big donkey. The common plains zebra is about 1.2–1.3 m (47–51 in) at the shoulder with a body ranging from 2–2.6 m (6.6–8.5 ft) long with a 0.5 m (20 in) tail. It can weigh up to 350 kg (770 lb), males being slightly bigger than females. Grévy's zebra is considerably larger, while the mountain zebra is somewhat smaller.[The Welsh Mountain Pony may not exceed 12.2 hands (50 inches, 127 cm) in the US[15] or 12 hands (48 inches, 122 cm) in the United Kingdom). The Tarpan, in comparison,started at about 13 and 13.2 hands tall.

it's possible that someone could make a major effort to domesticate zebra -- deer are now raised as livestock in New Zealand. But once the horse was domesticated, it simply outcompeted the zebra -- it was easier to manage, bigger, stronger and faster.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #19

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it's possible that someone could make a major effort to domesticate zebra -- deer are now raised as livestock in New Zealand. But once the horse was domesticated, it simply outcompeted the zebra -- it was easier to manage, bigger, stronger and faster.
There is no evidence that Zebra were ever domesticated--EVER. There are tame zebra on guest farms and private reserves, but taming does not equate to domestication. Deer and antelope are often tamed--I used to go to pub in the Magaliesberg that had a tame Eland that would cadge peanuts from people in the beergarden and a game farm in Warmbaths had a hyena that would wander the camp at breakfast time looking for scraps.
The horse was domesticated in Eurasia--the Zebra was not an alternative. The species was not domesticated because it was not a viable subject.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #20

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
There is no evidence that Zebra were ever domesticated--EVER. There are tame zebra on guest farms and private reserves, but taming does not equate to domestication. Deer and antelope are often tamed--I used to go to pub in the Magaliesberg that had a tame Eland that would cadge peanuts from people in the beergarden and a game farm in Warmbaths had a hyena that would wander the camp at breakfast time looking for scraps.
The horse was domesticated in Eurasia--the Zebra was not an alternative. The species was not domesticated because it was not a viable subject.
i didn't say they had been domesticated. I said if someone wanted to put the time and trouble into it, it might be possible to do so. Given the modern information regarding the genetics of temperament and docility and gene splicing, etc, I suspect if someone had the money and time, it could be done. But it would probably be easier to create horses with zebra stripes.
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