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Natural Environment How Human History has been impacted by the environment, science, nature, geography, weather, and natural phenomena


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Old December 14th, 2017, 12:34 AM   #31

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Well, at least I know not to mess with a crow by now. I kind of tried to shoo away a noisy couple of them, from a tree near my home below which there's a bus stop, some time back. Partly becos I had seen one pecking on a baby dove earlier, which it had perhaps stolen from the mother's nest, feeding on it while it was still alive.

And then later on, for a good several weeks, I kept getting hassled by one crow, maybe two, every time I stood there waiting for the bus. They'd like make a swoop on me, and then like turn away at the last moment.

Cud be the same two crows having a bad axe to grind with me.
If you have ever done anything that the crows do not like, they will remember your face and screech at you or mob you if you get too close. Not only will the crows you upset, totaly unknowingly I'm sure, remember your face for years, they will teach their young to hate you, they will teach their relatives to hate you, and you will be hated by these crows for generation unto generation, really, no joke. This is why corvid researchers wear masks when they climb trees or set traps to ring a bird, as if they do not, they will be recognized whenever they are seen in the future and be subjected to warning cries if not mobbing.

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Old December 14th, 2017, 12:44 AM   #32

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BBC News | AFRICA | Lioness adopts third baby antelope
About a wild lioness adopting her third baby antelope

The Incredible Story Of a Siberian Tiger and the Goat He Won?t Eat | Observer
Amur the male Siberian tiger , and his friend , a goat
p. s. the goat was rather bossy
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Old December 14th, 2017, 01:39 AM   #33

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You're more or less saying that the cougars wud then be attacking the humans for food, and the ravens will subsequently be joining in with the feeding. OMG, that is badass, man. Absolute badass.


I wud imagine that the wolves in this case wud eventually learn, by a kind of acquired reflex, that ravens exhorting them out means food on the table, so to speak. Just like Pavlov's bell finally meant meat to his dog.
I would say it's even better as, in the case of the cougar, Raven expert Bernd Heinrich says that it was not a case of the ravens following a cougar to a potential kill, but of them leading the cougar. On the case that he recounts, a woman out the back of her house had ravens calling and flying around her. After a little while she then realized that a cougar was stalking her. If the ravens were following the cougar they would have had no need to make themselves known until after the kill, so making a racket could have had no other purpose than leading the cougar to the prey.

With wolves it is a combination of behaviours. The ravens constantly monitor "their" wolves, and when they see them move out to hunt, then they follow. While there is no evidence that the wolves do anything to attract the attention of the ravens to them hunting, it is presumed that the ravens have learned what the wolves are saying to each other by their howls. On the other hand, ravens will, as I mentioned before, go out hunting for dead or feeble prey, and then alert the wolves and lead them. Not only do the ravens lead the wolves, if the wolves stop at any time, the ravens will harass them to get them moving again. Ravens also have the habit of lurking around wolves dens, and it seems that, as seen in some videos, they pull on a wolves tail, it is a form of bonding, not mobbing. Ravens have been seen pulling on the tails of wolf cubs fresh out of the den, so getting them used to the ravens as soon as possible. Ravens have also been recorded using brown and polar bears, and also humans hunting deer, though in a watch and follow capacity.

A bit off topic but related. There is an ongoing dispute about if non avian dinosaurs, T.rex for instance, hunted in packs. Those who say no point out that apart from, I think, one species of harrier, avian dinosaurs, birds, do not hunt in packs. IMO they miss a giant elephant in the room. Ravens, while not having talons and a hooked beak, are omnivorous raptors that certainly hunt in packs, they just need help opening the can of spam.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 01:44 AM   #34

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BBC News | AFRICA | Lioness adopts third baby antelope
About a wild lioness adopting her third baby antelope

The Incredible Story Of a Siberian Tiger and the Goat He Won?t Eat | Observer
Amur the male Siberian tiger , and his friend , a goat
p. s. the goat was rather bossy
Eventually they had to be separated as the goat, Timur, was too bossy and after jumping on top of Amur got bitten by the tiger. Probably just a warning nip, but a warning nip from a tiger is a big deal, so they parted.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 01:58 AM   #35

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^
LOL. With Timur probably bleating 'Help me, help me' all the way home to his mother.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 09:47 PM   #36

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A bit off topic but related. There is an ongoing dispute about if non avian dinosaurs, T.rex for instance, hunted in packs. Those who say no point out that apart from, I think, one species of harrier, avian dinosaurs, birds, do not hunt in packs. IMO they miss a giant elephant in the room. Ravens, while not having talons and a hooked beak, are omnivorous raptors that certainly hunt in packs, they just need help opening the can of spam.
I believe eagles & hawks do hunt in pairs occasionally, a male & his regular female partner, if not in big packs.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #37

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...though the text accompanying the photographs is incorrect. Bears typically are solitary, but wolves most certainly are not. Wolves are pack animals and among the most social animals on Earth.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 04:48 AM   #38

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I would have never even considered a bear and a wolf could become friends... Good one, Scaeva!
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Old December 15th, 2017, 05:26 AM   #39

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it is a common misconception to consider animals as deficient in feelings ,
they are of course responding to their biological needs but their psychological needs are as complex and important as ours ,
we ARE animals , that's our ultimate validation
I still remember with tears in my mind the spectacle of a rhino kept at the Melbourne zoo , it's only event was feeding time and ignoring the folder for an instant ,
it thrust its.s muzzle though the grating for a cuddle by the warden ,
I though of a prisoner desperately reaching for human contact

Last edited by sparky; December 15th, 2017 at 05:29 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 05:55 AM   #40

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Yep, animals do hv feelings too. A mother cow who had just lost her baby e.g. to disease etc., wud be losing appetite for several days at the very least, mooing away continuously in grief at her loss.

That rhino wud hv experienced more stress if it was caged in a small enclosure. But I believe the current trend is using distance & things like water, vegetation etc. as separation from human visitors. Thereby giving more physical space, and less of a difference from its original natural habitat. Still, safety precautions hv to prevail also, becos an adult bull in musth has been known to gore his own keeper to death in a sudden unexpected fit of rage.

Anyways, I went to our national zoo for the first time, some time back, and I was surprised at the latest developments in wildlife management.

Some of the storks & cranes actually go out on periodic 'excursions' to the wetlands near our national administrative capital of Putrajaya, some 20 miles (32 km) away, and then they come back to their 'home' in the zoo near Kuala Lumpur city by their own volition, before dark.

Last edited by Dreamhunter; December 15th, 2017 at 07:39 AM.
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