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Natural Environment How Human History has been impacted by the environment, science, nature, geography, weather, and natural phenomena


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Old November 3rd, 2012, 02:49 AM   #21

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius Vorenus View Post
Back to the OP

If you want an answer on your question, I strongly recommend you the book; Lewis Mamford, THE CITy IN HISTORY, Its origins, Its Transformations and Its Prospects.

Great book.

IMPORTANT NOTE: THIS WAS MY 600th POST. I'm ROCKIN'!
Congratulations. Thanks for the indication, historical urban organization is a argument which is very interesting.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:30 AM   #22

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In most old cities the streets were narrow, simply because there were no cars.

In Thessaloniki, Greece the streets were like this. Here Egnatia street:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

But the particular street, just like the others, had to be enlarged later:

Click the image to open in full size.

And below the same street there's an ancient one:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 05:41 AM   #23

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Originally Posted by Yaunâ View Post
In most old cities the streets were narrow, simply because there were no cars.

In Thessaloniki, Greece the streets were like this. Here Egnatia street:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

But the particular street, just like the others, had to be enlarged later:

Click the image to open in full size.

And below the same street there's an ancient one:

Click the image to open in full size.
well at least in greece and in any sensible country people try to enlarge old streets as much as possible—except turkey. even new streets here are made narrow (bidirectional traffic, two lanes only). then they complain about the traffic congestion.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 05:56 AM   #24

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There are different movements in city planning,

one movement pledges for wide streets so that people from the suburbs can easily get to the city centre and back. Nowadays we often see this in American and Chinese cities where huge highways lead people in to the heart of the city.
This does bring along some problems:
parking problems
In the last decades there has been a huge increase in the number of cars in the city, nowadays designers count 1.7 car per household. When people from the suburbs have to park their cars in the city centre as well this brings a lot of problems. Which can be solved by expensive projects like parking buildings and facilities to park underground.

another movement wants to stimulate small streets so that people will use more public transport, bikes and walk more. This would be beneficial for reducing smog development, health problems and traffic deaths.
However it also means less independence for the user of the public space and the building of expensive projects like subway tunnels and tram lanes.

Nowadays cities are looking to counter the problem by building facilities for people who visit the city where they can park their car and hop on public transport that will take them in to the city centre.
Tough there are some child diseases in these projects they are looking quite promising.


So you see, having wide streets in cities is not inherently good or bad, it largely depends on when the city came to bloom. Older cities have taken on the second option while most cities who got their boom in the middle of the 20th century up to now often make wide streets to make it accessible to cars.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 01:15 PM   #25

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well at least in greece and in any sensible country people try to enlarge old streets as much as possible—except turkey. even new streets here are made narrow (bidirectional traffic, two lanes only). then they complain about the traffic congestion.
No, believe me the streets are very narrow here too. And our cities are extremely densely populated:

Click the image to open in full size.

While in Istanbul for example there are a lot of green areas and there are large roads too, but probably they're too few for such a big city.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #26

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I was taught these facts -
The closer the buildings, the greater the shade, which is ideal for countries that has a lot of sunshine;
City walls restricted growth so buildings were placed as close as possible;
The width of a cart and a bit was the widest a main road needed to be;
Urban planning was mostly non-existent, so the maximum amount of space was used to build upon, to maximise the builders/landowners profits.

Of course, these do not completely tally with the archaelogical (and extant) record, but there is a basis of truth in all of the statements above.

Last edited by OccamsRazor; November 11th, 2012 at 01:54 PM.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:50 AM   #27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccamsRazor View Post
I was taught these facts -
The closer the buildings, the greater the shade, which is ideal for countries that has a lot of sunshine;
City walls restricted growth so buildings were placed as close as possible;
The width of a cart and a bit was the widest a main road needed to be;
Urban planning was mostly non-existent, so the maximum amount of space was used to build upon, to maximise the builders/landowners profits.

Of course, these do not completely tally with the archaelogical (and extant) record, but there is a basis of truth in all of the statements above.
yes but my question is that didn't they have congestion with horse carriages back in the days? i mean take istanbul for example—in 18th or early 19th century. in 1800 the population was around 570,000 people (dense, too). did they all walk? i'm sure many people used horse and donkey carts which are as wide as today's cars...in those narrow streets. they didnt bother to widen them until the 20th century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaunâ View Post
No, believe me the streets are very narrow here too. And our cities are extremely densely populated:

Click the image to open in full size.

While in Istanbul for example there are a lot of green areas and there are large roads too, but probably they're too few for such a big city.
wow, that looks very istanbulish to me there must be lots of congestion in there. athens' population is around 3 mil. take that, multiply by 5 and put a strait in the middle. there you have the notorious istanbul traffic
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Old November 12th, 2012, 07:56 AM   #28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by infestør View Post
yes but my question is that didn't they have congestion with horse carriages back in the days? i mean take istanbul for example—in 18th or early 19th century. in 1800 the population was around 570,000 people (dense, too). did they all walk? i'm sure many people used horse and donkey carts which are as wide as today's cars...in those narrow streets. they didnt bother to widen them until the 20th century.
The Romans forbade carts to be used during the day in Rome to ease the congestion.

Until the 19th century, when public transport was invented, everyone walked.
In London, there was heavy traffic congestion, as many of the roads followed the original layout of the pre-1666 fire.

So the answer is yes.
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