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Natural Environment How Human History has been impacted by the environment, science, nature, geography, weather, and natural phenomena


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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:45 PM   #21

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You assume atoms are the final particle? Even on the atomic scale there are no perfect lines to form a perfect square or the perfect curve of a circle. Mathematical space is a human invention. Numbers of things can exist in a finite universe, but certain aspects of maths do not exist, imho.

I don't see what genetic mapping has to do with it, genetics are also imperfect.
Oh yeah, the human invention and so the idea that there is no infinity is also a human thing, which makes it imperfect viewing from you own example, and thus, such cannot be relied on as the truth in itself. The mathematical space as you mentioned is a human invention too, thus, it is also subject to be fallible, but the fact of counting a number from one to ..... yeah, infinity is beyond the human invention, which I submit, to be more in keeping with the reality.

Yeah, genetics are also imperfect, but, I am referring to the formation which as you aptly pointed out, of human inventions.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:47 PM   #22

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Counting is probably related to time as events have to happen in order for time to pass. If there are no events there is no time.
I also disagree with you that time relies on events. Rather time is a manifestation of counting which is beyond the existence of the mechanical act by a human as operated by ones brains. Thus, counting to infinity is a fact in itself.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:56 PM   #23

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Oh yeah, the human invention and so the idea that there is no infinity is also a human thing, which makes it imperfect viewing from you own example, and thus, such cannot be relied on as the truth in itself. The mathematical space as you mentioned is a human invention too, thus, it is also subject to be fallible, but the fact of counting a number from one to ..... yeah, infinity is beyond the human invention, which I submit, to be more in keeping with the reality.

Yeah, genetics are also imperfect, but, I am referring to the formation which as you aptly pointed out, of human inventions.

Not sure I understand as it's a bit late here and I'm sleepy

It is possible to imagine a perfect circle/square because that's how euclidean geometry works. They're perfect shapes used to calculate a mathematical proof, but they are limited to the mind and not the real world.

This can't work in nature because it would be physically impossible to create a square or circle with such precision. Even beyond the atomic scale the angles would be out or there would be imperfections. If this were true in nature then there would be a final value for pi.

There's appears to be no evidence for infinity in nature either, other than the unknown. Even black holes burn themselves out via Hawking radiation. I think there's vast numbers in the universe as I explained before (googolplex etc) but infinity is too much of a paradox to be real.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:57 PM   #24

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I also disagree with you that time relies on events. Rather time is a manifestation of counting which is beyond the existence of the mechanical act by a human as operated by ones brains. Thus, counting to infinity is a fact in itself.

In order for time to exist in the physical world there has to be something in the physical world to mark its passing. If there's nothing then how can there be time?

I have to head to bed before my brain explodes interesting debate though my friend!
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 04:05 PM   #25

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Not sure I understand as it's a bit late here and I'm sleepy

It is possible to imagine a perfect circle/square because that's how euclidean geometry works. They're perfect shapes used to calculate a mathematical proof, but they are limited to the mind and not the real world.

This can't work in nature because it would be physically impossible to create a square or circle with such precision. Even beyond the atomic scale the angles would be out or there would be imperfections. If this were true in nature then there would be a final value for pi.

There's appears to be no evidence for infinity in nature either, other than the unknown. Even black holes burn themselves out via Hawking radiation. I think there's vast numbers in the universe as I explained before (googolplex etc) but infinity is too much of a paradox to be real.
You exactly stated the possible fact of infinity, and it is unknown because I do not think that the humans had explored at least 2% of it to create a conclusion that infinity do not exist. Like the humans before thought that the world is flat only to learn that it is round.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 04:06 PM   #26

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In order for time to exist in the physical world there has to be something in the physical world to mark its passing. If there's nothing then how can there be time?

I have to head to bed before my brain explodes interesting debate though my friend!
Yeah, I know that you better go to bed my friend, because the counting of the numbers isn't going to end, due to the fact of infinity
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 06:41 PM   #27
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Hubble's Constant has the Universe expanding at an increasing rate so that the farthest reaches of the Universe are approaching the speed of light. What happens when it reaches the speed of light?
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 06:46 PM   #28

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I'd say it's either one, or the other.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 08:51 PM   #29

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Finite, obviously. When something (the universe) expands from size1 to size2 for a given period, that means the size of it is measurable (theoretically). Both size1, size2, alongwith the difference are very much finite (measurable).

I also go with Earl that there is no real world reference for infinity. No infinite 'object' exists in the nature as we see it.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:02 PM   #30

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I'd say it's either one, or the other.

Thank you for this valuable insight
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