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Natural Environment How Human History has been impacted by the environment, science, nature, geography, weather, and natural phenomena


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Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:41 PM   #31

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Hubble's Constant has the Universe expanding at an increasing rate so that the farthest reaches of the Universe are approaching the speed of light. What happens when it reaches the speed of light?
At the speed of light, mass equals zero, and length becomes infinite. But the speed of light is like the Universe's ultimate speed limit.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:42 PM   #32

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Physical science has proven the Universe is finite.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:48 AM   #33

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In order for time to exist in the physical world there has to be something in the physical world to mark its passing. If there's nothing then how can there be time?

I have to head to bed before my brain explodes interesting debate though my friend!
This thread has cheered me up You only give ourself a headache when you think too much. The universe is so vast that it can not be weighed or measured. I just love its beauty.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:59 AM   #34

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When you apply infinity to nature it is absurd, there has to be a limit, the alternative leaves the door open for anything to happen an infinite number of times.

Elvis could be Generalissimo of North Korea ad infinitum.

There could also be an infinite number of mes, now that is scary.
Happy Dreams people.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:46 AM   #35

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Yeah, I know that you better go to bed my friend, because the counting of the numbers isn't going to end, due to the fact of infinity
Infinity is an idea. It can't be a quantity. There can be no quantity that can be called infinity, as you can always add one to any quantity that exists. What exists in nature can always be described in quantities. Therefore thinking of infinity as a tangible thing is absurd.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:55 AM   #36

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Physical science has proven the Universe is finite.
IIRC, Newton was first able to prove that the universe was finite. If the universe was infinite (in quantity), it would have always had to exist in it's current form.

If this was the case, then we should not see any blackness in the night sky because an infinite amount of stars would have been shining for an infinite amount of time, and the distance to each star would not be a barrier for perceiving it.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:03 AM   #37

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IIRC, Newton was first able to prove that the universe was finite. If the universe was infinite (in quantity), it would have always had to exist in it's current form.

If this was the case, then we should not see any blackness in the night sky because an infinite amount of stars would have been shining for an infinite amount of time, and the distance to each star would not be a barrier for perceiving it.


This is what always confused me, if it's impossible to see the infinite then how can we see the start of the Mandelbrot Set?



This video is nuts (skip to 3.45 to see the Mandelbrot Set explained).

How can there be a start to the set? Or perhaps we could zoom out an infinite amount of times too?

Last edited by Earl_of_Rochester; November 23rd, 2012 at 09:09 AM.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:22 AM   #38

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This is what always confused me, if it's impossible to see the infinite then how can we see the start of the Mandelbrot Set?
Well I don't think it's impossible to see the infinite, depending on what we mean by this term, we just can't describe infinity as any quantity.

We could theoretically see the edge of a black hole, which is an effect of infinitely dense matter, we can make mathematical formulas that could go on infinitely, but at no point can we say "that quantity is infinity".

Last edited by Rasta; November 23rd, 2012 at 09:30 AM.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:42 AM   #39

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Well I don't think it's impossible to see the infinite, depending on what we mean by this term, we just can't describe infinity as any quantity.

We could theoretically see the edge of a black hole, which is an effect of infinitely dense matter, we can make mathematical formulas that could go on infinitely, but at no point can we say "that quantity is infinity".

The problem there is infinite density, that thought troubles me because that would mean infinity does exist in nature as infinite density and then dagul would be right

Tho the Black hole eventually evaporates due to Hawking radiation... I've a great interest in physics but I'm certainly no mathematician and this is completely out of my field.

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Information loss paradox
Main article: Black hole information paradox
List of unsolved problems in physics
Is physical information lost in black holes?
Because a black hole has only a few internal parameters, most of the information about the matter that went into forming the black hole is lost. It does not matter if it is formed from television sets or chairs, in the end the black hole only remembers the total mass, charge, and angular momentum. As long as black holes were thought to persist forever this information loss is not that problematic, as the information can be thought of as existing inside the black hole, unaccessible from the outside. However, black holes slowly evaporate by emitting Hawking radiation. This radiation does not appear to carry any detailed information about the stuff that formed the black hole, meaning that this information appears to be gone forever.[122]
For a long time, the question whether information is truly lost in black holes (the black hole information paradox) has divided the theoretical physics community (see Thorne–Hawking–Preskill bet). In quantum mechanics, loss of information corresponds to the violation of vital property called unitarity, which has to do with the conservation of probability. It has been argued that loss of unitarity would also imply violation of conservation of energy.[123] Over recent years evidence has been building that indeed information and unitarity are preserved in a full quantum gravitational treatment of the problem.[124]


Black_hole Black_hole


I think I've reached the limits of my knowledge here, it appears even the experts get lost on this one.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:54 AM   #40

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The problem there is infinite density, that thought troubles me because that would mean infinity does exist in nature as infinite density and then dagul would be right

Tho the Black hole eventually evaporates due to Hawking radiation... I've a great interest in physics but I'm certainly no mathematician and this is completely out of my field.





Black hole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I think I've reached the limits of my knowledge here, it appears even the experts get lost on this one.
It is true that the nature of infinity does boggle our greatest minds, and my conception could be overly simplistic but I make a simple distinction between infinite (as a descriptor) and infinity (as a quantity).

In the example of a black hole, we say the matter is infinitely dense, what we mean is that it could not become more dense. But there is not an infinite quantity of matter inside of a black hole. We have black holes and we have supermassive black holes. Obviously supermassive black holes have more matter than normal black holes, yet the influence on space time is similar (warping space-time to the extent that it makes an event horizon that not even light can escape from).

Right, we can theoretically have an infinite number of parallel universes, but the given number of other universes will never be infinity.

That's how I understand it anyways.
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