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Old June 23rd, 2018, 12:22 PM   #1801
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Old June 25th, 2018, 06:44 AM   #1802

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=fascinating;2959575]A lot of what you say there makes sense, but as a reply to deaf turner's post it seems to be a massive over-reaction.


In referring to the lift he was using the example of a basically able person (a person who can use the gym) who uses the elevator instead of stairs, the car instead of walking, and finds he must go to the gym to lose weight.


He did NOT say ANYTHING about taking the lift out! It's just an example of the, rather amusing, habits many of us have got into.

true. but i'm taking it to the extremes because that's what one sees in my state. We had our "clever" governor sign a bill that rations water to 55/gallons per residence per day (ads say per person, but that's NOT what the law says). 55 gallons is one shower and one laundry load. it doesn't even come close to covering use of an evaporative cooler in the desert areas of California (Most water use estimates range from 3 to 15 gallons / 11 to 57 litres per hour, with averages between 7 and 11 gallons / 26.5 and 40 litres. But the amount of water an evaporative cooler will use varies depending on three major factors: 1. The combination of heat and humidity at any given time. https://www.alloutcool.com/swamp-coo...nergy-use.html --now these coolers work FAR more efficiently
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Swamp coolers use very little electricity. They only need enough energy to power the fan and a small pump. So they can almost always run on normal household currents.
than a "air conditioner". Now my area gets at least 90 days a year where the temps are over 100F (nope, not global warming. Been that way since before the Donner party).
https://aceee.org/files/proceedings/...11_Paper07.pdf
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High-efficiency residential evaporative coolers use an average of 5,100 gallons of water per year in the Southwest,
https://www.swenergy.org/data/sites/...cy_Options.pdf
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Both compressor-based cooling and evaporative cooling systems are becoming more efficient, but on a Btu-of-cooling-per-kWh-of-electricity basis, the best evaporative cooling systems are on the order of five times more efficient than SEER 13 central air conditioning (CAC) systems and demand is less by a factor of four or more. Further, additional water use at the site (home) amounts to only about 3 percent of the water use of an average residential customer. This is offset by about a third by increased water use at the source (generator) reflecting much more electric energy use by CAC systems than evaporative coolers. From an overall environmental point of view in the Southwest, evaporative coolers use less fossil fuels with only a slight increase in water use relative to even the most efficient CAC systems. (Details of energy and water use by state are
shown in “New Evaporative Cooling Systems: An Emerging Solution for Homes in Hot Dry Climates with Modest Cooling Loads” at SWEEP || Southwest Energy Efficiency Project || SWEEP.)
now more than 50% of the homes in CA use evaporative coolers. How many people might actually DIE if they can't use them? -- so the lift example is pretty paltry compared to that.

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=fascinating;2959575 Moving the subject on a little, perhaps the obesity problem is an example of how we cannot face up to the consequences of our own actions. Our wealth enables us to eat lots and do very little exercise, but the evidence shows up in our bodies, so we cannot deny what we are doing, we cannot point to others who overeat and blame it on them, and childishly refuse to take remedial action just because others won't. Perhaps a lesson there regarding the consequences of our polluting lifestyles?
or perhaps the recommended diets aren't actually useful, the dropping of basic physical work and calisthenics, etc may be an issue. Anthropologically, ancient humans were apparently MUCH more fit than we were: here's one example: https://metro.co.uk/2009/10/14/prehi...n-bolt-490193/ -- when your life is physical, the population in general tends to have good physical characteristics. When it isn't, it isn't.
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Old June 25th, 2018, 07:00 AM   #1803

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Originally Posted by Bart Dale View Post
I wonder if we have accurate enough data in the late 19th and 20th century to say what the solar adtivity was doing, or even volcanic activity for that matter.

I can't help but think they are invoking these activities in much the same way skeptics invoke solar activity to account for warming. I just can't shake the feeling that the solar and volcanic activity accounts were added whenever they needed to account for cooling their model would not predict. I would like to see their source of data for volcanic and especially solar activity independent of their model.
geological evidence of plants and volcanic ash is pretty much something that is a fact. One can argue how much evidence for a warmer climate in Antarctica fossil ferns and dinosaurs are, but it's a bit hard to simply dismiss their existence. and if one can use "tree rings" to "prove" global warming, one can just as legitimately use them to disprove it. And if that data is a bit less solid proof than one might like? Then one has to accept that we actually don't have that many years of ACCURATE data, that satellites have only been there since the 1970s and even there data varies, that ground temperatures for research are influenced by location (were they in a rural area to start, now in a parking lot as is the case of USC sensor in CA?), and if the data has actually been read consistently. -- and that the period of time we do have accurate data is extremely short on geological terms. That would make it extremely arrogant to assert that 1. we've never had climate change before when the evidence is for extreme swings over the eons 2. that the current climate is being driven by human activity and NOT partially or even mostly driven by nature (if we don't KNOW natural changes, we can't determine what is natural and what is human driven changes) and finally 3. if we don't KNOW the actual normal natural climate changes and where the planet is/ isn't going currently, attempts to intentionally alter it could be making it worse as much as making it better (for whom being another issue. What's good for central Europe may not be beneficial for people in Northern Europe or Australia, etc). That's why understanding the past is important, why not tampering (or "adjusting" it to make it fit one's theories) with data is so important and why ANY theory has to be challenged. Science isn't "settled" because some politician says it is, or even if someone with scientific credentials says it is. And that's why challenges and debates make science better.
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Old June 25th, 2018, 07:04 AM   #1804

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https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0622174503.htm and https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-04734-3
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Polymer chemists have taken another step toward a future of high-performance, biorenewable, biodegradable plastics. The team describes chemical synthesis of a polymer called bacterial poly(3-hydroxybutyrate) *- or P3HB. The compound shows early promise as a substitute for petroleum plastics in major industrial uses[
The compound shows early promise as a substitute for petroleum plastics in major industrial uses.
P3HB is a biomaterial, typically produced by bacteria, algae and other microorganisms, and is used in some biomedical applications. Its high production costs and limited volumes render the material impractical in more widespread commodity applications, however.

The team, which includes the paper's first author and research scientist Xiaoyan Tang, used a starting material called succinate, an ester form of succinic acid. This acid is produced via fermentation of glucose and is first on the U.S. Department of Energy's list of top 12 biomass-derived compounds best positioned to replace petroleum-derived chemicals.

The researchers' new chemical synthesis route produces P3HB that's similar in performance to bacterial P3HB, but their route is faster and offers potential for larger-scale, cost-effective production for commodity plastic applications /
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Old June 25th, 2018, 07:08 AM   #1805

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Where?s The Warming! Summer Snow Blankets Poland/Ukraine?27 ?Summer? Camp Children Evacuated!
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Winter refuses to die as large parts of the northern hemisphere like Labrador and Eastern Europe get blanketed by unusual summer snow. Arctic ice volume reaches 13-year high, Greenland snow mass balance explodes, and tropical Atlantic is “coldest on record”.
Tropical Atlantic sea surface temps (SSTs) (10-20N, 60-20W) remain at record cold levels (since 1982) for mid-June. About 0.2C colder than prior coldest (1985) and nearly 1.7C cooler than last year at this time. Colder SSTs typically mean quieter Atlantic #hurricane seasons.”
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Old June 25th, 2018, 07:12 AM   #1806

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https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/...ions-stand-up/ In an article in the Wall Street Journal today, climatologist Dr Patrick Michaels and meteorologist Dr. Ryan Maue compare Hansen’s predictions to actual reality over the past 30 years. Instead of the gloom and doom we heard in 1988, we have an earth that is only moderately warmer, and closer to Hansen’s “scenario C”, the bottom graph below, which is overlaid with actual global temperature data in red.
Click the image to open in full size.
so if the climate is warming, it's not doing so in drastic speeds or degrees. It could be entirely natural cycle -- there is plenty of evidence of warmer climates previous to humans and during the time humans have been on the planet.
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Old June 25th, 2018, 06:22 PM   #1807

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NoTricksZone: "Not here to worship what is known, but to question it" ? Jacob Bronowski. Climate and energy news from Germany in English ? by Pierre L. Gosselin
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Reconstructions of regional China temperatures consistently do not support the position that the modern period falls outside the range of natural variability.

In fact, in the first half of 2018 alone, there have already been 17 scientific papers published documenting a lack of conspicuous modern warming for regional China.
The day of the year that a plant first blooms is widely considered to be “an important natural indicator of climate change” when observed over the course of decades to centuries. A new study (Liu et al., 2018) reveals that a flowering plant in Beijing, the Amygdalus davidiana, has not been blooming any earlier in recent decades than it did during the second half of the 18th century.

Click the image to open in full size.
Reconstruction of spring phenology and temperature in Beijing, China, from A.D. 1741 to 1832: SPRING PHENOLOGY AND TEMPERATURE IN BEIJING FROM A.D. 1741 TO 1832
Article (PDF Available)  in International Journal of Climatology June 2017 
DOI: 10.1002/joc.5145 https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.co....1002/joc.5145

Extreme phenophase delays and their relationship with natural forcings in Beijing over the past 260 years
Article (PDF Available)  in International Journal of Biometeorology March 2018 
DOI: 10.1007/s00484-018-1528-0
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29556764
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Old June 25th, 2018, 06:28 PM   #1808

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https://www.clim-past.net/12/1485/20...-1485-2016.pdf A 368-year maximum temperature reconstruction based on
tree-ring data in the northwestern Sichuan Plateau
(NWSP), China Clim. Past, 12, 1485–1498, 2016
www.clim-past.net/12/1485/2016/
doi:10.5194/cp-12-1485-2016
We present a reconstruction of July–August mean maximum temperature variability based on a chronology of tree-ring widths over the period AD 1646–2013 in the northern part of the northwestern Sichuan Plateau (NWSP),
China. A regression model explains 37.1 % of the variance of July–August mean maximum temperature during the calibration period from 1954 to 2012. Compared with
nearby temperature reconstructions and gridded land surface temperature data, our temperature reconstruction had high spatial representativeness. Seven major cold periods were identified (1708–1711, 1765–1769, 1818–1821, 1824–
1828, 1832–1836, 1839–1842, and 1869–1877), and three major warm periods occurred in 1655–1668, 1719–1730, and 1858–1859 from this reconstruction. The typical Little Ice Age climate can also be well represented in our reconstruction
and clearly ended with climatic amelioration at the late of the 19th century. The 17th and 19th centuries were cold with more extreme cold years, while the 18th and 20th
centuries were warm with less extreme cold years. Moreover, the 20th century rapid warming was not obvious in the NWSP mean maximum temperature reconstruction, which implied that mean maximum temperature might play an important and different role in global change as unique temperature indicators
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Old June 25th, 2018, 06:38 PM   #1809

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https://realclimatescience.com/2018/...t-in-14-years/
Click the image to open in full size.
On the 10th anniversary of NASA’s ice-free in 2018 forecast, Arctic sea ice volume is the highest since 2004. source data for chart at link.
nor has the northwest passage become ice free:
Click the image to open in full size.

https://realclimatescience.com/wp-co...856_shadow.png

wasn't Gore and others asserting there'd be no ice in the north years ago? Dec 14, 2009 --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsioIw4bvzI
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Old June 25th, 2018, 09:13 PM   #1810
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wasn't Gore and others asserting there'd be no ice in the north years ago?
Nope.
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