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Old August 27th, 2016, 08:21 AM   #11
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To differentiate, there is a difference between monuments (glorified propaganda) and relics (the remains of cultures and civilizations). Daesh makes no distinction as it is a destructive and deluded death cult; its adherents being slaves to superstition.

Removing physical, and therefore visual, representations of defeated enemies is nothing new. For a winner they are annoying and potentially dangerous; for the loser, perhaps too painful. Whatever, it has happened a lot, but has not been universal in application. The Germans did not demolish l'Arc de Triomphe and the Soviet Union did not demolish the Brandenburg Gate. (The Allies however did disestablish Prussia, although that was less visible than ideological.)

During the Renaissance in Italy, it was not at all unusual to remove all escutcheons and insignia of defeated rivals in conflicts between families. Also, in some cases, demolishing and eliminating reference to entire structures can be more effort than it is worth.....Except to Daesh. Those pervs would destroy l'Arc de Triomphe and Notre Dame along with everything else.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 10:43 AM   #12
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I think it should be left up to the citizens of the nation in which the monument is.

For example, Germany should decide the fate of Nazi propaganda pieces and monuments, Russia should decide the fate of Soviet propaganda pieces and monuments, the US should decide the fate of Confederate propaganda pieces and monuments, etc
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Old August 27th, 2016, 12:00 PM   #13

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By that logic, there should be a lot more Hitler statues in Germany.
Were there any? I don't really see the problem with that anyway. If you don't want them in a public space just put them away somewhere. Even Russia still has such objects about the Tsar, Lenin, Stalin and Rasputin.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 12:36 PM   #14

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I can see some of the arguments so far... a monument to segregation in the southern US or a Nazi monument to the Holocaust are an abomination. If the vast majority in a society agree, then I could see why it would come down. Still, there is something to be said for leaving all historical monuments as a reminder to the past. If we aren't careful, people can justify tearing down any monument in the heat of the moment, leaving posterity the poorer for it.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 02:10 PM   #15

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From a purely aesthetic standpoint, a blanket prohibition on destroying monuments would be a positive development in my mind. This is particularly the case with tradition Western neo-classical style monuments, which irrespective of the ideology lend an artistic and humanistic flavor to otherwise utilitarian and commercial settings.

The time may come when there are too many monuments but I feel that day is remote. It would be interesting to compare the numbers of monuments per capita in say ancient Rome compared to modern Western nations.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 02:21 AM   #16

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Today we say it's always wrong to destroy monuments, but past ethical considerations about this were well different and even in the present we can see something odd. For example in my home town the local administrators haven't destroyed a statue of King Vittorio Emanuele, they have hidden it in a depot of the municipality police. Only the change of the Constitution and the return of the Savoy Royal descendants in Italy, my municipality has put that statue again at its place.

This to say that politics wins on principals also in our Western societies. If public opinion doesn't care, politicians can decide to destroy what they want ...
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Old August 28th, 2016, 07:53 AM   #17

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Today we say it's always wrong to destroy monuments, but past ethical considerations about this were well different and even in the present we can see something odd. For example in my home town the local administrators haven't destroyed a statue of King Vittorio Emanuele, they have hidden it in a depot of the municipality police. Only the change of the Constitution and the return of the Savoy Royal descendants in Italy, my municipality has put that statue again at its place.

This to say that politics wins on principals also in our Western societies. If public opinion doesn't care, politicians can decide to destroy what they want ...
Which Victor Emmanuel? I presume the third.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 08:09 AM   #18

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I think it should be left up to the citizens of the nation in which the monument is.

For example, Germany should decide the fate of Nazi propaganda pieces and monuments, Russia should decide the fate of Soviet propaganda pieces and monuments, the US should decide the fate of Confederate propaganda pieces and monuments, etc
blowing up thousand year old buddhist statues then becomes justified and the world is poorer for it.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 08:16 AM   #19

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So all those statues of Lenin and Stalin in former-Soviet countries and Eastern Europe shouldn't have been brought down and put in other places and museums? It's a lot of statues, they wouldn't have space to put all of them in museums.
there is a movement to give Stalingrad back its name because of its importance in history.
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Old August 28th, 2016, 08:25 AM   #20
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So all those statues of Lenin and Stalin in former-Soviet countries and Eastern Europe shouldn't have been brought down and put in other places and museums? It's a lot of statues, they wouldn't have space to put all of them in museums.
I am very proud of solution for this problem in Lithuania. A lot of soviet monuments were collected in "Park-Museum". It was done by private individual and at the moment this project is very successful, foreign tourists love it and locals don't have to deal with Lenin statue in every single town.


Lauko ekspozicija ? Gr?to parkas

"The exposition, consisting of 86 statues by 46 different sculptors, is organized into spheres. Each of the statues features a Soviet or socialist activist, many of them ethnic Lithuanians. The Totalitarian Sphere features sculptures of the main Communist leaders and thinkers, including Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, and Karl Marx. The Terror Sphere is dedicated to sculptures of founders of the Communist Party of Lithuania (Zigmas Aleksa-Angarietis, Vincas Mickevičius-Kapsukas) and officers of the Red Army (Feliksas Baltušis-Žemaitis, Ieronim Uborevich). It also has a sculpture of Felix Dzerzhinsky, the organizer of the Red Terror."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C5%ABtas_Park

P.S. When possible historical sites should never be destroyed.
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