Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 2nd, 2017, 04:31 AM   #51

redcoat's Avatar
Hiding behind the sofa
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Stockport Cheshire UK
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo12 View Post
They are loosing their religion. Or worst ...they have never had a religion..( hoax religion excluded ).. or they watched to much Dawkins and Hitchens atheistic claims..on TV channel
I take it you are unaware or it doesn't fit your agenda that the suicide rate in the USA in the early 19th century was higher than it is now.
redcoat is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 2nd, 2017, 04:39 AM   #52
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jul 2016
From: Europe/Switzerland/Ticino
Posts: 885

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomar View Post
Regular sex with several people you care about plus some you dont really care about is even better
Are you talking about teen-agers and kids ?
aldo12 is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 04:44 AM   #53
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jul 2016
From: Europe/Switzerland/Ticino
Posts: 885

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
I take it you are unaware or it doesn't fit your agenda that the suicide rate in the USA in the early 19th century was higher than it is now.
I got it.
But watching Dawkins atheistic claim is always drepessing.
Once is enough for all your lilfe.
Twice is dangerous and more than two could lead you to suicide..
aldo12 is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 04:48 AM   #54

redcoat's Avatar
Hiding behind the sofa
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Stockport Cheshire UK
Posts: 6,550

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo12 View Post
I got it.
But watching Dawkins atheistic claim is always drepessing.
Once is enough for all your lilfe.
Twice is dangerous and more than two could lead you to suicide..
That's your agenda talking.
redcoat is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 05:44 AM   #55
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2015
From: Australia
Posts: 312

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terranovan View Post
I think the reality facing the west is certain uncertainty.


It actually baffles me how true this is. Thanks to divorce, globalization, and how credit is used to drive the economy the west runs on certain uncertainty.

Millennials aren't stupid they know the reality.

You either become a white collar success, or you become trapped in an uncertain life as a blue collar.

The big problem is people try to use statistics to prove that these fates are not as bad as they sound.

The reality is its the lack of tangible security in ones life that is really causing the damage.

Humans are hard wired to improve their own lives, and when every tangible step forwards creates a huge liability it wreaks havoc with ones mind.

Your trapped between becoming a wal mart greater or being a mid-level gambler, hoping your student loan, your marriage, your mortage or your company doesn't leave you bankrupt by 50.

Its a hell of alot of pressure and the statistics don't lie.

If your not a "winner" the odds are clearly against you and its no longer a secret.

By being humble and playing it safe your hoping that a bad real estate market, a divorce etc doesn't **** you over.

The people with ambition line up hoping that they can catch onto a real estate bubble, or magically find a partner that gets better with age.

EDIT:

In contrast in poorer countries you get very different trends.

1) There's a real chance things can actually improve on a tangible level. Even if its something as simple as getting running water you atleast have a logical frame of reference, versus in the west where your best hope is hacking a system.

2) You can get ahead by doing manual labor, instead of engaging in the mentally exhausting office work. Mental stress is directly tied into the nature depression etc.

3) Traditional family structures tend to endure, and relationship stability is way higher. Families are bigger, divorce rates are lower, and the odds that your family will be split up due to job opportunities is way better.

4) Unlike in the west competition isn't a winner take all situation. If everyone works hard productivity gains will transfer to a higher standard of living for your nation. In the west productivity has hit a hard limit, competition is actually severely messing up property values and the values of education.
You might be on to something here - This question probably belongs on a philosophy forum but sometimes I wonder if technology will ultimately kill the human race.
And I don't mean nonsense scifi like the Terminator, but it seems like humans that are the most technologically advanced seem to gradually lose social bonds and the will to procreate and continue themselves.
In the western world obesity rates are shocking, fertility rates are collapsing, you can live in a city and not know anyone within a 5 mile radius - you can completely interact with humans online and substitute sex with HD pornography and not even interact with any person on a physical level.
They call this the herbivore movement in Japan and in the Western world the term ghosting seems to be the new name for it.

Younger generations (especially men) are increasingly shunning relationships and living minimalistic lives pursuing their hobbies (often in cyberspace) and who can blame them? When over half of American women are obese, there simply aren't enough attractive women to go around - and then not to mention the laws and campaigns to paint men as rapists etc....
The mystery and allure of love and relationships has been turned into a game of Russian roulette where you risk STDs, meeting abusive ex-partners, rape allegations and divorce.

I hope i'm not sounding divisive here but the amount of social and cultural change that has happened in the last 50 years is unbelievable - it really is the frog in the slowly boiling pot.

Last edited by Redaxe; January 2nd, 2017 at 05:49 AM.
Redaxe is offline  
Old January 5th, 2017, 05:09 PM   #56
Lecturer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 494

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terranovan View Post
I think the reality facing the west is certain uncertainty.


It actually baffles me how true this is. Thanks to divorce, globalization, and how credit is used to drive the economy the west runs on certain uncertainty.

Millennials aren't stupid they know the reality.

You either become a white collar success, or you become trapped in an uncertain life as a blue collar.

The big problem is people try to use statistics to prove that these fates are not as bad as they sound.

The reality is its the lack of tangible security in ones life that is really causing the damage.

Humans are hard wired to improve their own lives, and when every tangible step forwards creates a huge liability it wreaks havoc with ones mind.

Your trapped between becoming a wal mart greater or being a mid-level gambler, hoping your student loan, your marriage, your mortage or your company doesn't leave you bankrupt by 50.

Its a hell of alot of pressure and the statistics don't lie.

If your not a "winner" the odds are clearly against you and its no longer a secret.

By being humble and playing it safe your hoping that a bad real estate market, a divorce etc doesn't **** you over.

The people with ambition line up hoping that they can catch onto a real estate bubble, or magically find a partner that gets better with age.

EDIT:

In contrast in poorer countries you get very different trends.

1) There's a real chance things can actually improve on a tangible level. Even if its something as simple as getting running water you atleast have a logical frame of reference, versus in the west where your best hope is hacking a system.

2) You can get ahead by doing manual labor, instead of engaging in the mentally exhausting office work. Mental stress is directly tied into the nature depression etc.

3) Traditional family structures tend to endure, and relationship stability is way higher. Families are bigger, divorce rates are lower, and the odds that your family will be split up due to job opportunities is way better.

4) Unlike in the west competition isn't a winner take all situation. If everyone works hard productivity gains will transfer to a higher standard of living for your nation. In the west productivity has hit a hard limit, competition is actually severely messing up property values and the values of education.

RE-EDIT: When I said west I was including the asian tigers.
Terranovan is offline  
Old January 5th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #57
Lecturer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 494

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redaxe View Post
, rape allegations and divorce.
.
That's a big one and it's not just rape its sexual harassment in general.

Your not suppose to date in the work place, at the gym, nor should can you get actual conscent from someone who has been drinking.

Best of all the "winners" in our society can navigate and flourish with these rules.

Low status men are the most vulnerable to false accusation, so it's incredibly troublesome.

What's even more scarey is that these laws are increasingly considering justified.

"activitist" are fully willing to throw low status men under a bus and destroy their lives even if it results in a total collapse of our society.

Last edited by Terranovan; January 5th, 2017 at 05:15 PM.
Terranovan is offline  
Old January 7th, 2017, 03:55 AM   #58
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2015
From: Australia
Posts: 312

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terranovan View Post
That's a big one and it's not just rape its sexual harassment in general.

Your not suppose to date in the work place, at the gym, nor should can you get actual conscent from someone who has been drinking.

Best of all the "winners" in our society can navigate and flourish with these rules.

Low status men are the most vulnerable to false accusation, so it's incredibly troublesome.

What's even more scarey is that these laws are increasingly considering justified.

"activitist" are fully willing to throw low status men under a bus and destroy their lives even if it results in a total collapse of our society.
Yes there is a lot of animosity between the genders now that didn't exist even 10 years ago. Now every newspaper you'll find almost daily feature articles and 'opinion' pieces about mansplaining and manspreading or the so-called wage gap.

It is sad that many multimedia companies give so much space for a few bitter misandrists.

Regarding your comment about low status men - well its not just them. Even someone like Brad Pitt can be assaulted with what so far appears to be false domestic abuse charges and now has lost custody of his children and is supervised by a shrink if he wants to see his children.

And as for low status men - the issue that no one wants to confront is that biologically women are attracted to males that they perceive as powerful or providers. In the past generations marriage 1.0 worked because society was set up so men would earn more and would part with some of their wealth to support a family.

Now women actually outnumber (and increasingly outperform) men in higher education and college and are getting the graduate jobs ahead of the males.
As has been pointed out in other threads - the unfortunate effect of this is to depress wages but to make things worse for men, it is getting harder and harder for them to earn a wage that is equal or more than a the average woman their age.

Why does this matter?

Well typically women tend to want to date men that earn more money. It is just simple biology - we should remember that humans still have 97% of the genes that Chimpanzees do and thus we aren't as independent from our behavioural patterns as we might think - we are still driven by our evolutionary selected impulses - I'm referring to Dawkins book the Selfish Gene.

One can go into a zoo and observe Chimpanzees for a while and then go into a school or prison or even the workplace and you will sadly see the same patterns - humans arranging themselves into pecking orders - typically with a dominant alpha male at the top who all the girls are in love with while the lower status males work quietly away secretly hoping that they can get the attention from one of the girls infatuated with the alpha.

Thus it is unfair to blame men or women's basic impulses; men have a desire to have sex and breed, women desire the best (alpha) provider to raise their children.

It is our DNA is telling women to settle down with the mate that can best provide for her offspring but the society we have created is also leaving less and less men with the resources to start a family should they choose.

The value of philosophy is that it should be seen as a tool to set a person on a journey of self discovery so they ultimately learn to be liberated from our more basal instincts and learn to truly live as a sovereign individual.

The only certainty is that it's going to be an interesting century to watch - we are really undertaking a big social experiment - we are all rats in the maze.
The best thing to do in these uncertain times is to learn to live the minimalistic life, cut unneccessary luxuries, don't expect a pension when you retire, pick up hobbies that are cheap and rewarding (fishing, camping, hiking etc....) and save, save, save.

Last edited by Redaxe; January 7th, 2017 at 03:59 AM.
Redaxe is offline  
Old January 7th, 2017, 04:33 AM   #59

dreuxeng's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Sep 2015
From: England
Posts: 800

Throughout the life of mankind, men and women shared the responsibility of work: making a living (survival). Only during the Victorian period in England did the culture emerge whereby men now aspired to provide for the household, whilst his wife could now focus on being a home maker (no doubt with at least one servant) and raising the children, and living a more refined and more 'feminine' life.
dreuxeng is offline  
Old January 7th, 2017, 05:42 AM   #60
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2011
From: Finland
Posts: 1,070

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo12 View Post
They are loosing their religion. Or worst ...they have never had a religion..( hoax religion excluded ).. or they watched to much Dawkins and Hitchens atheistic claims..on TV channel
In Finland, where suicide numbers are high, the numbers have been decreasing since 1990. While religion, or the traditional evangelic lutheran anyway, has been in decline also.
mikainen is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
america, live, young



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Young Princes Live GunslingerPoetStudent Speculative History 0 September 13th, 2015 12:49 PM
Why do some young people isolate themselves? Jake10 Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 11 November 30th, 2011 03:10 PM
The natives of america who decided to live like white people.... backstabber History Help 6 December 19th, 2009 05:17 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.