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Old December 23rd, 2016, 05:41 PM   #531
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There was clear evidence that murder was punished. That alone would take care of anyone that would "hunt and eat their fellow human".

You must have some huge deficiency in basic comprehension that is making you actually believe that intent in presumed in an intentional tort case. Nothing "from my own link" showed what you stated. I provided an excerpt from a law book initially, you are the one who started quoting legal websites, not me, and I only quoted from the same website you did after you had done so, to make clear that even that website didn't agree with your nonsense.


Going over this nonsense over and over again really is getting tiring.
How can there be evidence that murder was punished when the head of the tribe which was the center of power of such political group was the leader of hunting and eating people? Remember that the governmental structure among these tribes was under the command of its chieftain. Now, a chieftain who calls his men to hunt and eat fellow being can never be questioned by anyone since such was the norm of that society. That alone shows how backward such society was because a tribe which was governed by its own leader was into such form of brutality which was to hunt and eat fellow being.

Well, like what I's stated, ignorance of the law excuses no one is the primary manifestation that intent is presumed in the commission of an offense which includes tort. Seems you really love negate the proviso of the law in that website.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 08:52 PM   #532

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Let's start by appreciating African cultures and history.
Instead of simple tribes, Africa was home to many sophisticated kingdoms and empires.
I opened the thread that "Why Africa did not have great empires", and I mean empires that were at least the size of the Northern Song Dynasty.
To name a few kingdoms and empires in Africa:
Songhai, Mali, Ghana, Kanem, Benin, Asante, Kongo, Buganda, Sultanates in current Somalia, East African city states, and more.
Europeans might have made major gains in the last few hundred years, but they are also culpable for the huge mess that we are currently in!
Typical Europhiles might mention all the achievements of Europeans without mentioning their major crimes against humanity.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 10:07 PM   #533
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Let's view the two extreme cases of regression, Zimbabwe and DRC.
Both have been under massive mismanagement, and DRC has faced internal instability and violence.
Can Zimbabwe recover from these years of mismanagement?
Zimbabwe could easily recover. I do not even count its slide as a regression, as massive fall in HDI there is due to its currency becoming completely worthless. HDI numbers do not account for black market, and in case like Zimbabwe, black market become 'THE' market.


It is case like Congo (both), Central African Republic, and numerous small and petty countries on Gulf of Guinea coast, that are irredemable, even if their numbers are better than Zimbabwe on paper.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 10:30 PM   #534

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Zimbabwe could easily recover. I do not even count its slide as a regression, as massive fall in HDI there is due to its currency becoming completely worthless. HDI numbers do not account for black market, and in case like Zimbabwe, black market become 'THE' market.


It is case like Congo (both), Central African Republic, and numerous small and petty countries on Gulf of Guinea coast, that are irredemable, even if their numbers are better than Zimbabwe on paper.
Let me count these countries:
Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Liberia, Senegal, Gambia, Sierra Leone.
Would you elaborate why these countries are irredeemable?
CAR is a basket case for sure, in spite of its acronym.
Congo Brazzaville is superficially wealthier and more stable than Congo Kinshasa, but is it hopeless due to its political instability?
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Old December 24th, 2016, 12:27 AM   #535
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Let me count these countries:
Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Liberia, Senegal, Gambia, Sierra Leone.
Would you elaborate why these countries are irredeemable?
CAR is a basket case for sure, in spite of its acronym.
Congo Brazzaville is superficially wealthier and more stable than Congo Kinshasa, but is it hopeless due to its political instability?
I did not said all, but a most of countries around that region are in pretty bad shape compared to North African countries, or East African countries like Tanzania and Kenya, or South African countries. Of the countries you have mentioned, Senegal was never a basket case, but rest of them are pretty unstable, politically. And when I speak of that region, I do not do so in narrow term of countries who directly border the Atlantic, but are in same region, so this list would extend to a all countries between narrow strip between Atlantic and a southern border of Mali, Chad, Niger line.

I deem that region to be irredeemable because of rampant tribalism in that area, in conjugation with lack of good leaders, and moderate level resources which are not enough to make them fabulously rich ,like Oil make Arabs rich, but enough that predatory corporation would always look to install a dictator ,directly or indirectly, to make profit.

Tribalism in this part of Africa (a ribbon starting from Somalia, and ending on Senegal while traversing CAR, and Congo) is worse than any other part of world, with tribes fighting with each other being so ridiculously small that it would seem comical to most people who are habitual at dealing with large numbers of people of greater diversity. It is more like extended families being in a constant state of war, with a lot of bad blood between them due to some extra cruel torture and mini genocide done onto each other. This means that people in these countries could not unite for long and work towards a common goal of betterment of all.Whatever stability and peace that come to this region come from barrel of gun of Blue helmets, or a foreign military, or threats of a complete economic boycott by UN and African Union, if they do not mend their ways. These countries could not even be divided any further as most of them are well, microscopic. If there is a major shift in power structure of world, or AU's responsible countries took a beating, these countries would plunge into civil war, again.

Second is that this region has a history of producing some crappy leaders. See democracy is overrated. China is a dictatorship; Russia is a dictatorship; Singapore is a dictatorship; Japan in its most glorious days was a dictatorship; and Europe at height of its power was mostly dictatorship. Dictatorship could produce fantastic leaders sometime, and democracy may produce craptastic leaders. The major difference between Asian and European dictators and African dictators from this area has been that Asian and European dictators (even the horrible ones like Mao and Stalin in their own way) cared about well being of their subjects (most of them had saviour or god complex) and tried to improve their condition and that of their country as a whole,with some eventually succeeding (Lee-Kuan-Yew and Deng-Xiapong), most of African dictators have no interest in improving lives of their subjects and only want to enrich themselves with corruption and park all their wealth in offshore bank accounts, and enjoy life in Europe. This means that drain of wealth from African countries happen even after they became independent, more so in unstable countries where you have to rob country blind in small amount of time you would be ruling.


And finally the resource curse which originate from above two point. See resource curse ,as understood in classical terms, does not exist. Norway has Oil fields, it is not an unstable craphole. Saudis, Qatar, and Iran too are not. But when you combine resources with unstable polity and craptastic leaders, you get a condition in which you being a barren desert would have been a better prospect. In a conflict ridden Sierra-Leone ,where tribes/politicians are willing to kill each other brutally ,rather than hammering out their differences peacefully, a predatory extractive corporation or even Mercenary corporations would always find it beneficial to install a puppet ,and when that puppet steps out of line or try to renegotiate bribes, fund and provide weapons to his opponent to off him. Blood diamonds were a very big reason of Sierra Leone's civil war, and the reason that it finally winded down is because campaign against Blood diamond has been successful, and the reason it has been successful is because Diamonds are worthless, and their value arise from cartelization, hoarding, and public relations. Diamond hoarding corporations (Deebeers before,now Alrosa) decided that bad publicity Blood Diamonds bring is not worth the cost of these useless stones whose value exist only because they actively hoard them. But if social values change (let's say USA ,one of the major diamond consumer, goes full KKK and collectively say: "**** it! Who cares about dead Africans. We want our diamonds cheap") or if UN and AU collapse, Blood diamonds would again be in business and civil war will restart in Sierra Leone.

Last edited by Abhishek; December 24th, 2016 at 12:30 AM.
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Old December 24th, 2016, 03:13 PM   #536
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Truly, democracy can produce bad leaders and dictatorhip may have great leaders but one thing is for sure, in democracy the people have their rights and acess in courts of laws that dictatorhsip will never provide that form of liberty to the public. That makes the western civilization above all.
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Old December 24th, 2016, 04:34 PM   #537

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Truly, democracy can produce bad leaders and dictatorhip may have great leaders but one thing is for sure, in democracy the people have their rights and acess in courts of laws that dictatorhsip will never provide that form of liberty to the public. That makes the western civilization above all.
These sound like Europhile statements to me.
In a representative democracy, people's participation and enthusiasm are important.
In India, one of the largest democracies in the world, is known for widespread violations of rights and inadequate legal system.
Representative democracy still may not guarantee the best execution of rule of laws.
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Old December 24th, 2016, 07:55 PM   #538

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On the topic of inoculation, every culture on earth had some awareness that if you got an illness once you wouldn't get it - or similar ones - again. It's really obvious. Africans were not unique in knowing this. Europeans were unique in developing the medical science.
Not interested in interfering in the back and forth between you and Roses2, but I do think that you are either misunderstanding her point about inoculation, or you are simply misrepresenting history. While several cultures around the world did know about inoculation (the forerunner of vaccination), western cultures did not know about it and certain American doctors even opposed it when it was suggested that the practice be adopted in America.

The article "Smallpox Inoculation in Africa" (1975) by Eugenia Herbert provides more detail about the subject:

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~franke...Africa1975.pdf

I don't think anyone alive today could really know what the extent of precolonial African medical knowledge really was - not because none of it was written down, but because of both the loss of written records among literate societies and the gradual dying out of the few real expert practitioners among illiterate societies - but it seems that at least some of them knew a bit more than just what was obvious.

In the early 15th century, a eunuch and servant named Aben Ali, from Gao (the capital of the future Songhai empire) in West Africa, who had been brought to France by Anselm d'Isalguier and his Songhai wife (a noblewoman named "Salam Casais" in the sources) healed the future king of France, Charles VII, while he was the crown prince and was seriously ill. For sources which discuss the Anselm d'Isalguier/d'Ysalguier stuff see p. 113 of The Negroland Revisited: Discovery and Invention of the Sudanese Middle Ages by Pekka Masonen or pp. 120-121 of Africa in Europe: Antiquity into the age of global expansion by Stefan Goodwin.

Obviously, the French had their own physicians at that time, but an African noblewoman's servant, originating from thousands of miles away, was the one who ended up healing their crown prince when he was seriously ill. That was centuries ago, and modern western medicine is obviously the most advanced type of medicine in the world today, but an incident like that or the case of Onesimus does speak to the fact that there was medical knowledge in parts of Africa that was useful elsewhere and was not just something "obvious".
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Old December 24th, 2016, 08:23 PM   #539

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Not interested in interfering in the back and forth between you and Roses2, but I do think that you are either misunderstanding her point about inoculation, or you are simply misrepresenting history. While several cultures around the world did know about inoculation (the forerunner of vaccination), western cultures did not know about it and certain American doctors even opposed it when it was suggested that the practice be adopted in America.

The article "Smallpox Inoculation in Africa" (1975) by Eugenia Herbert provides more detail about the subject:

https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~franke...Africa1975.pdf

I don't think anyone alive today could really know what the extent of precolonial African medical knowledge really was - not because none of it was written down, but because of both the loss of written records among literate societies and the gradual dying out of the few real expert practitioners among illiterate societies - but it seems that at least some of them knew a bit more than just what was obvious.

In the early 15th century, a eunuch and servant named Aben Ali, from Gao (the capital of the future Songhai empire) in West Africa, who had been brought to France by Anselm d'Isalguier and his Songhai wife (a noblewoman named "Salam Casais" in the sources) healed the future king of France, Charles VII, while he was the crown prince and was seriously ill. For sources which discuss the Anselm d'Isalguier/d'Ysalguier stuff see p. 113 of The Negroland Revisited: Discovery and Invention of the Sudanese Middle Ages by Pekka Masonen or pp. 120-121 of Africa in Europe: Antiquity into the age of global expansion by Stefan Goodwin.

Obviously, the French had their own physicians at that time, but an African noblewoman's servant, originating from thousands of miles away, was the one who ended up healing their crown prince when he was seriously ill. That was centuries ago, and modern western medicine is obviously the most advanced type of medicine in the world today, but an incident like that or the case of Onesimus does speak to the fact that there was medical knowledge in parts of Africa that was useful elsewhere and was not just something "obvious".
I am certainly tired of the Europhile comments for sure.
Since the developmental pattern of Africa is different from Europe and East Asia, we need to do something about it.
The developmental highway of China seems attractive, but we have already witnessed the tremendous toil on the environment and personal health.
Africa can have a rather different development path.
Nigeria has already witnessed some of the toils of the developmental highway, such as massive pollution around the Niger delta.
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Old December 24th, 2016, 08:25 PM   #540

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How can there be evidence that murder was punished when the head of the tribe which was the center of power of such political group was the leader of hunting and eating people?
I am talking about Africa generally, not about the very few groups there that actually practiced cannibalism.

Anyway, there were very few groups anywhere that "hunted and ate" other human beings. Even among groups in places where cannibalism was practiced, there was rarely any "hunting" (they ate corpses of already deceased people, usually).


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Remember that the governmental structure among these tribes was under the command of its chieftain. Now, a chieftain who calls his men to hunt and eat fellow being can never be questioned by anyone since such was the norm of that society. That alone shows how backward such society was because a tribe which was governed by its own leader was into such form of brutality which was to hunt and eat fellow being.
As I said above, worldwide, even among groups where some cannibalism was practiced, there was rarely "hunting". It was mostly consumption of corpses that went on.

Also, some of your perceptions are clearly derived from 19th and 20th century myths from western popular culture, and you don't seem capable or willing to engage in independent thought about what you're discussing, separate from whatever popular myths you've absorbed over the years.

Ask yourself why you haven't been emphasizing the "backwardness" of the Japanese people in general during WW2, for the cannibalism some of their soldiers repeatedly engaged in during WW2, where they killed and then ate people? It is because, although you are not a westerner, your entire worldview is derived from stereotypes found in 19th and 20th century western popular culture and the popular (non-scholarly) interpretation of history found in some parts of the west, and westerners don't want to ever think of Japanese as human flesh eaters, despite human flesh eating Japanese soldiers existing only about 70 years ago (at a time when Japan was not backwards, but one of the leading world powers). There is, of course, no rational defense of repeated Japanese cannibalism of enemy soldiers and civilians. But no one goes around calling the Japanese cannibals.

Instead you repeatedly emphasize whatever cannibalism was found among a few peoples among the indigenous Americans or Africans (people from larger geographical areas that were both colonized by the west) in order to suggest or imply cannibalism among much of the population of those continents as a whole.

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Well, like what I's stated, ignorance of the law excuses no one is the primary manifestation that intent is presumed in the commission of an offense which includes tort. Seems you really love negate the proviso of the law in that website.
You seriously just don't understand intentional torts. Only so many times I can repeat myself.
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