Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 1st, 2017, 02:45 PM   #21

robto's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 4,961

You are not required to love even your own family, let alone your nation, gender, community, religion or any sort of of collective identity.

But what I object about your condition is that you do not hate being a Brit because you don't identify with Britain - like transgender people do not identify themselves with their gender - but you appear to not like British people at all.

Hating an entire collective is bad overall.
robto is online now  
Remove Ads
Old January 1st, 2017, 03:57 PM   #22

Belgarion's Avatar
Cynical Optimist
 
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Australia
Posts: 5,633

Quote:
Originally Posted by robto View Post
What would be the reaction necessarily?
If the OP had said that he was black person who hated his race, hated everything from the way they looked to the way they talked he would be accused of being a toady to the white man and generally castigated for not embracing his 'blackness'. However an English person doing the same is seen as normal.
Belgarion is offline  
Old January 1st, 2017, 04:04 PM   #23
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: San Antonio, Tx
Posts: 7,802

Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptingman View Post
When my countrymen wax on about "American Exceptionalism" I am always mortified and embarrassed for their utter solipsistic idiocy. When they chant how the US is 'number one' at whatever, I feel my nation is one filled with imbeciles and jingoistic sheeple.
Totally agree with this. I have never figured out just what that "exceptionalism" is, or why we should be granted anything on that basis.

Last edited by royal744; January 1st, 2017 at 04:37 PM.
royal744 is online now  
Old January 1st, 2017, 04:27 PM   #24

robto's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 4,961

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
If the OP had said that he was black person who hated his race, hated everything from the way they looked to the way they talked he would be accused of being a toady to the white man and generally castigated for not embracing his 'blackness'. However an English person doing the same is seen as normal.
I would doubt many people would do that on this forum.
robto is online now  
Old January 1st, 2017, 05:00 PM   #25

THE TURK's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Jun 2016
From: istanbul
Posts: 363

Political and national identities are problematic by nature. I agree with Robto there. Especially the bigger a country is, the more a country has problems, including identity crisis. I really believe that in every country there are only %10-40 people are really, "like us". The rest are unfortunately arrogant, unable to learn, living for nothing etc..

What you are experiencing is not abnormal at all. There are many people in here who would say the same about their own country. "regional accents to be very irritating", aggressiveness, arrogant etc. very same problems are also here in Turkey, so much worse than Britain.

Smaller Western European countries are more "consistent", I believe. Switzerland, Denmark, Netherlands, come to mind.

With internet, I believe new international "nations" and strong identities will be born. Like people who love history, or people who like to listen to metal music, etc..
THE TURK is offline  
Old January 1st, 2017, 05:12 PM   #26
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: San Diego
Posts: 3,223

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger View Post
More p.c. talk. Lots of generalizations and stereotypes: except when it comes to them and their kind. Some who appear to self deprecate, in actuality,are attempting to show their self assumed superiority. I don't need the affirmation of others to feel ok with myself. And I am not out to impress others. Those who do are self loathing, in my opinion.
awwww...
That's so cute that you imagine your post is anything less than your own self assumed superiority.
You don't need affirmation from others because you are self affirming.

We all bow before your clear superiority.

Thanks for the comic relief.
sculptingman is offline  
Old January 1st, 2017, 06:04 PM   #27

Lord Fairfax's Avatar
Tickling the Dragons tail
 
Joined: Jan 2015
From: Rupert's Land ;)
Posts: 2,106

Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptingman View Post

When my countrymen wax on about "American Exceptionalism" I am always mortified and embarrassed for their utter solipsistic idiocy. When they chant how the US is 'number one' at whatever, I feel my nation is one filled with imbeciles and jingoistic sheeple.

Whenever I travel abroad- I can spot an American from clear across the piazza by their poor dress, obesity, and overbearing manner, and I consider it a compliment that foreigners never take me for an American.


This is not to say that there aren;t many great things about America and Americans... but living amidst it all, I am simply far more galled by the more annoying aspects of my own country- and am far too ignorant of the annoying aspects of other countries, because I DON'T live there, immersed in their cultures.
No sugar-coating that reply.
If any non American had mentioned that I suspect it would have gotten a pretty angry rebuttal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_Minoan View Post
I find Brits tolerable. They might give us Americans some smack about our various issues, but they at least know they have some hard core history themselves in regards to holding power and applying force. I find Canadians to be hard to deal with. It seems to me so much of their identity depends upon regarding themselves as better than Americans.
My buddy went to a Magic the Gathering tournament in Victoria BC, and some Canadian guy complimented him by telling him he was surprisingly intelligent. He immediately understood the meaning, and wasn't surprised at all.

Of course, because of where I live I've met a lot of Canadians.
Hey I hope I don't resemble that remark.
As someone who's nearest foreign state is the Evergreen state, I have seen both sides of what you describe.

Read the post quoted above yours, and you'll understand why some Canadians have a somewhat skeptical view of some Americans.

I think part of it is that (IIRC) the US has one of the lowest rates of foreign travel of any 1st world country, so it seems that many Americans have little understanding of other countries, cultures, languages or history.

(Not that there aren't ignorant Canadians, just like everyone else)
Lord Fairfax is offline  
Old January 1st, 2017, 06:08 PM   #28

Pedro's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: On a mountain top in Costa Rica. yeah...I win!!
Posts: 16,126
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptingman View Post
awwww...
That's so cute that you imagine your post is anything less than your own self assumed superiority.
You don't need affirmation from others because you are self affirming.

We all bow before your clear superiority.

Thanks for the comic relief.
Very disrespectful. Very.
Pedro is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:09 PM   #29

ImKervin's Avatar
Citizen
 
Joined: Dec 2014
From: New York
Posts: 13

I think it's not normal. If you truly do not like your nationality, your Britishness, then, renounce your citizenship. Or sell it to some migrant willing to die to get to your country. So , if I really assume your dislike who you r as a British and the people and basically everything about Britishness then you should have no problem renouncing your citizenship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
Imagine if the OP had said he was a black person.....
Good point .

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Last edited by ImKervin; January 2nd, 2017 at 01:14 PM.
ImKervin is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 02:04 PM   #30

Ajax_Minoan's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: Washington State, USA.
Posts: 688
Blog Entries: 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fairfax View Post
No sugar-coating that reply.
If any non American had mentioned that I suspect it would have gotten a pretty angry rebuttal.




Hey I hope I don't resemble that remark.
As someone who's nearest foreign state is the Evergreen state, I have seen both sides of what you describe.

Read the post quoted above yours, and you'll understand why some Canadians have a somewhat skeptical view of some Americans.

I think part of it is that (IIRC) the US has one of the lowest rates of foreign travel of any 1st world country, so it seems that many Americans have little understanding of other countries, cultures, languages or history.

(Not that there aren't ignorant Canadians, just like everyone else)
Americans may travel less than many advanced countries, but you can travel a great deal without even leaving the USA. We have forests; deserts, and plains as well as the jungles of Florida and Hawaii. Canada is larger, but I'm not sure you have as much variety.
I know when people describe Americans as a singular group of people, they are lumping together an awful lot of people over a massive area. Arrogance is the one thing we have in common though.

I think the most peculiar experience I ever had with a Canadian was the guy who came to Vancouver Washington to convince Americans to not re-elect George Bush in 2004. I had voted for Bush the first time, but I intended to vote for John Kerry that time (and I did).
This guy pegged me for a Bush supporter right off and came to play pool with me, and moved the conversation to the subject of Bush. I told him what I liked about Bush, and what I didn't like (Iraq). He told me how the US would never be able to take over Canada though I never brought it up. He told me about how he came to talk to Americans about Bush, and left somewhat angry thinking I still supported him when I didn't.
The way I see it, is why should I give him the satisfaction?

I've also seen some strange Canada worship among US Progressives. A Bill Maher Real Time episode I've remembered for a long time featured the Actress Ellen Page talking about environmental issues. After Maher complimented her mightily on being Canadian, she tried to talk about some great things she learned in Oregon that had to to with sustainable agriculture, but Maher had to cover it up and bring her Canadian essence up again so she couldn't disrupt the narrative that America is awful.
Ellen was pretty decent about it though.


Last edited by Ajax_Minoan; January 2nd, 2017 at 02:14 PM.
Ajax_Minoan is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
dislike, nationality, normal



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What nationality do you want to be if you could not be your current nationality? jeroenrottgering Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 177 April 7th, 2014 06:17 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.