Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 11th, 2017, 11:53 AM   #61

seneschal's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2015
From: California
Posts: 980

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinguisticTraveller View Post
I am British yet I find most British people completely insufferable. Arrogant, sarcastic, sneering, self-serving, believe in nothing, often aggressive and very often foul mouthed too.
I would venture a guess that many people in the world would say that about their own nationality.
seneschal is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 11th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #62

AlpinLuke's Avatar
Knight-errant
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Lago Maggiore, Italy
Posts: 18,414
Blog Entries: 19
Question Typical motion of order ...


In a parliament this happens:

it can happen that a representative asks to the assembly if it's clear the object of the discussion.

What's "nationality"?

Is it an objective "thing" [just to say ... it's linked to your birth] or is it a subjective "thing" [today I feel to be Italian, tomorrow I will fill to be German ...].
AlpinLuke is online now  
Old January 11th, 2017, 01:59 PM   #63

Black Dog's Avatar
Idiot of the year 2013
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: Damned England
Posts: 9,970
Blog Entries: 2

Maybe it's an indictment about just how sensitive modern people are about criticism ? But surely it's a person's right not to like a certain group, be it race, religion, culture or socio economic group? After all, it's OK to "hate the haters" when many, after, all, do not necessarily hate another group, they just don't want to associate with them. We all have the right to decide who we will and won't associate with, and why.

Hating or disliking your own group is surely less offensive than hating another. I think that there are a lot of double standards here: imagine this scenario:

1 A person says that he dislikes black people. Others assert that he's being unreasonable, because he's condemning a whole group he's never met and that that group are diverse and that it's irrational to dislike someone for the colour of their skin or their race.

2. They then round on him and call him a "hater", a bigot, a racist and possibly a white supremacist. Is this really any more even handed than the person they're condemning?

Surely, "disliking" is not hating. Nor is it necessarily racism or bigotry, since those types are rarely selective: they'd probably hate Asians and even foreigners, too. My fictional example may not.

And one might condemn our "racist" for stupidity, but it's neither illegal nor immoral to be stupid, or else the majority of the human race would be behind bars. Or going to hell

It seems to me that where hate doesn't exist, or lessens in perceived quantity, someone will invent new objects of hate. Hence, we're now conditioned to "hate the hater", where "hater" is the same overblown language racists frequently use.

I just remembered why I'm a misanthrope.
Black Dog is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 04:24 PM   #64

Earl_of_Rochester's Avatar
Scoundrel
Member of the Year
 
Joined: Feb 2011
From: Perambulating in St James' Park
Posts: 13,151

This reminds me of the Dave Chapelle clip of the blind KKK leader who suddenly discovers that he's black.

It's folly to resign an entire nation to the pettiness of stereotype.
Earl_of_Rochester is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #65

DaveK's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2017
From: Tampa, FL
Posts: 755

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinguisticTraveller View Post
Yet I get the impression most non-British people like the British character and sarcastic British humour, especially Americans and generally don't seem to relate to my dislike of my own country and culture.
I've become a strangely Anglophilic in the last couple of years. Probably the fact that I've never been there has a lot to do with it.

-Dave K
DaveK is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #66

Black Dog's Avatar
Idiot of the year 2013
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: Damned England
Posts: 9,970
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
I've become a strangely Anglophilic in the last couple of years. Probably the fact that I've never been there has a lot to do with it.
- Dave K

Speaking as an Englishman, I'm sure it has a LOT to do with it
Black Dog is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 05:21 PM   #67

DaveK's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2017
From: Tampa, FL
Posts: 755

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
- Dave K

Speaking as an Englishman, I'm sure it has a LOT to do with it
Easy for you to say, surrounded entirely by well spoken, witty and charming people all day discussing Dr. Who and Downton Abbey and all that quality BBC radio programming.

Now I must be off to read a tweet from my next president/reality TV star.

-Dave K

(The grass is always greener on the other side of the Atlantic. At least I think it's the Atlantic, but being educated in America I'm not sure.)
DaveK is offline  
Old January 12th, 2017, 05:32 AM   #68
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2015
From: Australia
Posts: 314

I have a lot of admiration for the British - they do have the worlds best sense of humor and the world would be a sadder place without British comedy
Redaxe is offline  
Old January 12th, 2017, 12:32 PM   #69

Rodger's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: US
Posts: 2,800

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
Maybe it's an indictment about just how sensitive modern people are about criticism ? But surely it's a person's right not to like a certain group, be it race, religion, culture or socio economic group? After all, it's OK to "hate the haters" when many, after, all, do not necessarily hate another group, they just don't want to associate with them. We all have the right to decide who we will and won't associate with, and why.

Hating or disliking your own group is surely less offensive than hating another.
Is it? I ask this sincerely. Without valuing either option, if forced to make a choice, is hating your own better? I am reminded of Lincoln's words, "a house divided cannot stand." Another analogy: hating your own family, with who you live, more than the neighbors, who are virtual strangers. I don't see this as being good for the psyche - either individually or collectively.
Rodger is offline  
Old January 12th, 2017, 12:50 PM   #70

DaveK's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2017
From: Tampa, FL
Posts: 755

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger View Post
Is it? I ask this sincerely. Without valuing either option, if forced to make a choice, is hating your own better? I am reminded of Lincoln's words, "a house divided cannot stand." Another analogy: hating your own family, with who you live, more than the neighbors, who are virtual strangers. I don't see this as being good for the psyche - either individually or collectively.
I don't know if it's better, but it's certainly a social norm that it is more permissible to make negative or stereotypical comments about ones own kind than others.

The norm dictates that it's ok if I say "I'm Italian and I just love some good pasta" but it is extremely vulgar to say "Oh, you're Italian, I bet you love pasta." This is a family friendly example, but the norm extends even to the most vile of racial epithets that I shall not repeat.

I'm guilty of criticizing Americans as being crass, vulgar, scientifically illiterate, innumerate..er..yeah But of course when I have a weak moment and have to read the comments section of a YouTube video, I feel a twinge of hurt when somebody else points these things out.

Human beings are funny people. I'm a human being. You do the syllogism.

-Dave K
DaveK is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
dislike, nationality, normal



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What nationality do you want to be if you could not be your current nationality? jeroenrottgering Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 177 April 7th, 2014 06:17 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.