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Old July 25th, 2017, 09:16 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Todd Feinman View Post
Just going to have to disagree on the UFOs, Sculptingman, but that's okay! I don't think you've really taken a serious look at the subject based on your last post, but perhaps you think you have; we will have to disagree on that point too.
I have taken a serious look at all the evidence.
I would LOVE for there to be space aliens visiting earth.

That you nor anyone else can cite a single unequivocal piece of evidence is an occam's razor kind of opportunity.
The simplest explanation for why you can't find anything real is that there is nothing real to be found.

Moreover- people believing in UFOs being aliens spacecraft are entirely ignorant to the scope of the problem they propose.

The amount of energy it would take to travel to the nearest star in anything like a reasonable time frame is equivalent to the amount of energy the entire human race has generated over the [past several centuries.

I don't care what magical powers of technology you make up... that large a share of energy- to a technological culture has VALUE. ergo, interstellar travel is EXPENSIVE on a vast scale.

We can KNOW that nay such alien species must have evolved, as did we. And that they developed technology, as did we, and so we can surmise that they would only be coming this far at that expense for a handful of potential reasons.
One- to take what we have- namely- a habitable planet- and if that were their objective they would have done so by now.
Two- Out of curiosity- namely- to reach out to another intelligent life form and find out about us. In which case they would have said hello when they got here.

Three- profit. Namely- because there was money to be made in something we have that they do not... which is hard to believe, unless you think that space aliens would be willing to pay a profitable margin over the costs of interstellar travel just for the sexual excitement of anally probing exclusively rural hicks.

All reasoned objections you believers wave away with the exact same rationale the religious use for God's illogical construction... that the Ways of the Lord are unfathomable to mere men... and that their magical power-er-technolgies are the reason they have evaded detection...
and yet they do donuts in our wheat fields, hover around with lights blazing, and other acts of playing celestial 'chicken' that simply can not be accorded with the rest of your beliefs, just as God's supposed omniscience occasionally slips up.

This reveals belief in space aliens to be the exact same thing as religion... WANTING to believe in a greater power, and that mysterious things are real.

A conflation of fantasy with reality that is the very reason it took mankind so long to crawl out of his caves... by actually starting to PROVE what he believes... and base his beliefs on proofs.


Mankind advances solely to the extent that we discard claims and adhere to that which can be demonstrated.

The ability to demonstrate Proof is what gave you this computer.
Its what keeps food fresh in your fridge, and gave you immunity to measles.
Its the reason you can see clearly thru glasses, the reason you can brew beer in summer, The reason your car starts and steers.

You agree to disagree- because you know you can offer nothing that would qualify as proof.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 09:35 AM   #32

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Governments aren't studying unicorns --military folks aren't always hallucinating, Sculptingman, and all of the civilians who see these things aren't liars!
We will just have to disagree about this particular subject.

Actually old wrong paradigms die hard:
https://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/Kuhn.html

Member how we thought the sun circled us? The Antikythera Mechanism works, but it is based on the belief that celestial bodies moved in spirals on crystalline hemispheres.. We used to think that the Milky Way was the universe. Now we believe that we are special, different from the animals, time for another shift.

I can't believe you aren't noticing the government interest and studies and reputable witnesses --unless you don't want to.

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 25th, 2017 at 09:41 AM.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 09:43 AM   #33

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Don't believe in crop circles --they are all made by humans. Saucer "nests" were found on occasion; they aren't anything like crop circles.
I know you think he is deluded on the face of it, but:
PROJECT 1947 - Forum - Bill Chalker - 1966 Tully Saucer Nest

THE FALLOUT
George Pedley, a bachelor, lived with Ashley Butler, 64, a neighbouring farmer. He was known to be a quiet, hard worker. None of the locals had anything against him, even those who did not believe in his sighting. He said to journalists, "Had anyone asked me five days ago if I believed in flying saucers I'd have laughed and thought they were nuts. But now I know better."
Farmer, George Pedley's sighting at Horseshoe Lagoon and the physical evidence found there caused a media sensation.
The Brisbane newspaper, The Sunday Mail, of January 23rd, 1966 "quoted" Pedley:
"I was driving the tractor through a neighbouring property on my way to my farm about 9 a.m. on Wednesday when I heard a loud hissing noise above the engine noise of the tractor.
"At first I ignored the sound, but suddenly I saw a spaceship rise at great speed out of Horseshoe Lagoon, about 25 yards in front of me. It was blue-grey, about 25 ft. across, and nine feet high. It spun at a terrific rate as it rose vertically to about 60 ft., then made a shallow dive and rose sharply. Travelling at a fantastic speed, it headed off in a south-westerly direction. I saw no portholes or antennae, and there was no sign of life either in or about the ship. "But on my way home to Tully that night I met Albert Pennisi, who owns the property where I saw the saucer. He said that about 5.30 a.m. on Wednesday his dog suddenly went mad and bounded off towards the lagoon."

Sculptingman, all of your reasons for an alien visit sound very human (profit, conquering)--I have NO idea why it is here myself.

I DO appreciate that you want there to be aliens

That beats folks who are scared of the idea..

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 25th, 2017 at 10:00 AM.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 10:16 AM   #34

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And, I respect your beliefs Sculptingman, as much as I try to tear them up
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Old July 25th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #35

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1. No reason to assume that they are just here for us --perhaps robotic probes have been here since before the dinosaurs.

2. Scientists and Hollywood are the ones with childish ideas about aliens --ray guns, completely anthropomorphized --never even stop to think that "greys" might not even be aliens, Show up like some simian tribal army to engage in combat with use because we are so special. Of course they would want to meet our leaders --because we are so special.

3. Some scientists suggest that the aliens we would meet would be more peaceful --if they were able to develop advanced technology without destroying themselves.

4. It would be very hard for us to understand something so advanced --even with our computing power:
Are You Living in a Simulation?

5. I don't think the aliens themselves are here --everything people report could be robotic
Still, it's just a lot of speculation, filling the void of I-don't-know with what we imagine might be plausible. People see strange things in the sky or weird things here and there that are difficult to explain. What can you really infer from that? Not much. They serve as imagination triggers but if you're not inclined to want to believe in extraterrestrial visitors, there's no reason to assume the events are evidence for such.

If mundane explanations fail to satisfy, the answer to the question, "What else could it be?" is "We don't know."
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Old July 25th, 2017, 01:47 PM   #36

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Green Fireballs:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs

Opinions of Los Alamos scientists

"It is believed that a release of the information to the public in its present condition would cause undue speculation and give rise to unwarranted fears among the populace such as occurred in previous releases on unidentified flying objects. This results from releases when there has been no real solution."

Opinions of Los Alamos scientists

Edward J. Ruppelt, director of the USAF Project Blue Book UFO study, stated he visited the Los Alamos National Laboratory in early 1952 and spoke to various scientists and technicians there, all of whom had experienced green fireball sightings. None of them believed they had a conventional explanation, such as a new natural phenomenon, secret government project, or psychologically enlarged meteors. Instead, the scientists speculated that they were extraterrestrial probes "projected into our atmosphere from a 'spaceship' hovering several hundred miles above the earth." Ruppelt commented, "Two years ago I would have been amazed to hear a group of reputable scientists make such a startling statement. Now, however, I took it as a matter of course. I'd heard the same type of statement many times before from equally qualified groups."

(me):
Intelligently controlled flying objects that have outperformed and continue to outperform and sometimes challenge military and civilian aircraft and violate the airspace of world superpowers with impunity --that appears to be of artificial construction and a type of technology, I submit is likely to be a non-human more advanced technology, and not a new form of ball lightening or lenticular cloud formation, or swamp gas.

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 25th, 2017 at 02:34 PM.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 02:09 PM   #37

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The Green Fireballs were also in the Life Magazine article:

LIFE Magazine - Have We Visitors From Outer Space?

Click the image to open in full size.

This is my fave part:
Out of this exhaustive inquiry these propositions seem firmly shaped by the evidence:

1. Disks, cylinders and similar objects of geometrical form, luminous quality and solid nature for several years have been, and may be now, actually present in the atmosphere of the earth.
2. Globes of green fire also, of a brightness more intense than the full moon's, have frequently passed through the skies.
3. These objects cannot be explained by present science as natural phenomena -- but solely as artificial devices, created and operated by a high intelligence.
4. Finally, no power plant known or projected on earth could account for the performance of these devices.

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 25th, 2017 at 02:13 PM.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #38

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So there are clear pictures. But, my favorite is the...Noise. I remember this being on the local news when I was a kid.
Sheriff and civilian had eyes on the object while recording was made.
Awesome. Skip to minute 1:48 to hear the louder noise. Watch your cat and dog listen.



Columbia River UFO 3/17/1981
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Old July 25th, 2017, 04:08 PM   #39

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I came across this article this morning:

At the end of life, 'seeing ghosts' may be a self-awareness of being near death | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

I was intrigued my the concept. As a logical person, I find it hard to believe in ghosts. As a spiritual person, something tells me it may be possible, a phenomenon that transcends the natural order of things. Years ago when my younger brother and cousin were children, they swore they saw a ghost. I found the original article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.f3d65ac43900

I would say it is possible to see ghosts, especially loved ones from the past, as one prepares to leave this life.
My mother did. She died a couple of years ago, and what she described and how she described it, I know she was seeing something. Now, can our own minds manifest this? Possibly, but it was one of those "you had to be there" moments.

I believe she was seeing what she was seeing. She was abnormally bright that day as well....she had been about 5 or so years into Alzheimer disease. When my wife and I were on our way home from the hospital, I told her that my mother would be dead within 24 hours. I was close, she died about 36 hours later.
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Old July 25th, 2017, 04:39 PM   #40

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My mother did. She died a couple of years ago, and what she described and how she described it, I know she was seeing something. Now, can our own minds manifest this? Possibly, but it was one of those "you had to be there" moments.

I believe she was seeing what she was seeing. She was abnormally bright that day as well....she had been about 5 or so years into Alzheimer disease. When my wife and I were on our way home from the hospital, I told her that my mother would be dead within 24 hours. I was close, she died about 36 hours later.
I have seen people who are dying "hold on" until they have resolved things, so to speak. I have also seen people have have passed on, once they have been reassured it is ok. Who knows, maybe a loved one from the other side has to let us know it is ok. That would certainly be reassuring in our hour of death.
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