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Old July 26th, 2017, 09:28 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Todd Feinman View Post
Governments aren't studying unicorns --military folks aren't always hallucinating, Sculptingman, and all of the civilians who see these things aren't liars!
We will just have to disagree about this particular subject.

Actually old wrong paradigms die hard:
https://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/Kuhn.html

Member how we thought the sun circled us? The Antikythera Mechanism works, but it is based on the belief that celestial bodies moved in spirals on crystalline hemispheres.. We used to think that the Milky Way was the universe. Now we believe that we are special, different from the animals, time for another shift.

I can't believe you aren't noticing the government interest and studies and reputable witnesses --unless you don't want to.

There are no such things as reputable witnesses.
Human beings are astonishingly poor observers.

Cops are trained to look for threats. Cops shoot unarmed people, BECAUSE they are MORE likely to perceive something ambiguous as being a threat because that is what they are looking for.

Military Pilots are trained to look for other aircraft.
They are more likely to perceive something ambiguous in their field of view as being an aircraft because that is the pattern they are looking for.

The Term UFO itself belies their bias- because things like Clouds are NOT 'flying'- Flying impresses on your perceptions the assumption that it is controlled in the way a bird controls its flight- or an aircraft is controlled in flight... ergo- folks who see these things do not stop at "what is that?" the roll on thru to "What is that FLYING thing?"

Seriously- READ UP ON IT. Police know that eyewitness testimony is actually the WEAKEST from of evidence for anything.

Look up the invisible Gorilla experiments... to get an idea of how incredibly limited human perception really is and how readily it is shaped by assumptions.


People USED to tell stories of succubi and incubi - because back then what they believed in was demons and spirits- Today those same experiences are reported as 'abductions' and 'probings'- yet the descriptions of the actual events are essentially identical.

Back when the early experiments in controlled flight resulted in cigar shaped propellor driven balloons that would become zeppelins... people started reporting UFOs that were cigar shaped... because that is what they thought flying things looked like and so that is the pattern they LOOKed for.


Way back- people's poor observational biases resulted win stories of miracles... divine apparitions... witches... leprechauns...
ALL of which turned out to be horse pucky...

As our ability to measure and RECORD events has improved... these kinds of beliefs and perceptions have receded into the fog from whence they originated.


I never said anyone was LYING... but your BELIEF in what you are seeing is not equivalent to the Truth.
By definition- a delusion is not YOU choosing to lie about what you saw--- its being totally convinced you saw a specific thing that you, in fact, did not.

The human visual cortex is specifically a pattern recognition device- it SEEKS patterns it can identify... and when it decides it has found a match, from that moment on what you are perceiving is MOSTLY the pattern your brain already has stored... and not the thing you are actually looking at. This has been demonstrated thru experiment to be true.



I get that you WANT it to be true. I get that you BELIEVE eyewitness reportage is somehow valid... but the very reason science requires demonstrated evidence in proof is because human perception has proven to be so utterly unreliable.

For example... MOVIES were invented as the result of a bet between two guys in the bay area....
For thousands of years human beings had OBSERVED horses galloping... and in all that time, no human perception was capable of determining whether a horse at a gallop ever had All Four feet off the ground at the same time.

Horse experts, sports experts, artists, EVERYBODY saw horses gallop, and some were convinced that the horse always had at least one foot on the ground- while others were convinced that the horse momentarily had no feet on the ground.

Visual perception is simply not acute enough, not consistent enough for human beings to visually determine the actual truth. In fact- the folks arguing that a horse had a moment where no foot was on the ground did NOT base that belief on what they SAW at all... the based it solely on the SOUND of a horse galloping, which had a noticeable pause in its rhythm.


Muybridge set up a series of cameras tripped by wires and shot pictures of a horse galloping thru the tripwires and, finally, for the first time... it could be DEMONSTRATED that a horse had all four feet off the ground at one point in a gallop.

Once more- stop believing in sh1t folks SAY.
Science is believing only in what folks can DEMONSTRATE.


When you see something you can't clearly identify in the sky... the proper response to the question of what did you see... is " I don't know".

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Old July 26th, 2017, 10:31 AM   #42

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Well, we are far apart on the UFO thing, and don't seem capable of convincing each other. And that's okay.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 12:44 PM   #43

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Ordinary people experience extraordinary things certainly in my neck of the woods. My grandmother and father saw a vision of Christ as did my best friend in school Ivor. These people weren't your cuddly wuddly pious types but down to earth, blunt, sometimes rude but straightforward people. I have seen and heard things myself yet I am far more dull than delusional. My friend Maurice (ex-British Army, Mercenary and French Foreign Legion) witnessed, along with my partner Janet, a UFO not far from here. Whether they are extra-terrestial, intra-dimensional or the fairies of folklore is anyone's guess; perhaps they are all three. Stuff happens out there, but as long as we insist it's all in the mind we undermine the real life experience of ordinary people, relegating special moments in life to the fringes of reality and therefore outside recorded history. Granted we should all remain as rational and objective as possible and err on the side of caution, but life is far more messy than any book or theory. 'Seeing is believing' you say, but that's not always the case. Seeing is often dismissing outright what you witness as it doesn't fit the accepted norms, and no one would believe you anyway, until gradually that significant moment in one's life is felt never to have happened at all, because it doesn't count in today's world.

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Old July 26th, 2017, 01:39 PM   #44

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRIAN GOWER View Post
Ordinary people experience extraordinary things certainly in my neck of the woods. My grandmother and father saw a vision of Christ as did my best friend in school Ivor. These people weren't your cuddly wuddly pious types but down to earth, blunt, sometimes rude but straightforward people. I have seen and heard things myself yet I am far more dull than delusional. My friend Maurice (ex-British Army, Mercenary and French Foreign Legion) witnessed, along with my partner Janet, a UFO not far from here. Whether they are extra-terrestial, intra-dimensional or the fairies of folklore is anyone's guess; perhaps they are all three. Stuff happens out there, but as long as we insist it's all in the mind we undermine the real life experience of ordinary people, relegating special moments in life to the fringes of reality and therefore outside recorded history. Granted we should all remain as rational and objective as possible and err on the side of caution, but life is far more messy than any book or theory. 'Seeing is believing' you say, but that's not always the case. Seeing is often dismissing outright what you witness as it doesn't fit the accepted norms, and no one would believe you anyway, until gradually that significant moment in one's life is felt never to have happened at all, because it doesn't count in today's world.
Thank you. Exactly. I have mentioned my experience previously and the circumstances surrounding it. When you experience something like that, your mind tries to categorize and catalog it to put it into the framework of consensus reality. And it CAN'T. May sound trite to see a disc of formation, but it has a very profound impact on the viewer. Honestly I cannot understand that if folks really are looking closely at the subject and studying it, that they can't see something is there. It is very odd to know something exists having seen it firsthand, and then have to use other evidence to prove it. Read the studies, look at the thousands and thousands of reports from civilians, military on the ground, in the air, by reputable honest witnesses describing things CONSISTENT with the photographs --and of a consistent technology. That is not ours. Boggles My freaking mind.

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Old July 26th, 2017, 01:51 PM   #45

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And here's the thing; if it is NOT aliens by the commonly accepted definition, then it is probably something even stranger, looking at the phenomenon as a whole. I suspect a highly advanced intelligence that could have been here far before our current human species, but that part really is speculation.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 02:03 PM   #46

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I work with the public. I have met many people who had experiences in the '40s through the '60s. Sometimes it is possible to cross-reference a sighting with a different contemporary report. In Portland and Oregon, there have been a lot of sightings. The number is high. Ask Older family members and friends and they might be able to tell you some surprising things.

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 26th, 2017 at 02:08 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 02:13 PM   #47

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Here is some fun:

Archive 1959: Fighter jets sent to intercept Redmond UFO | KGW.com

"...Stayed very steady and projected long tongues of red, yellow and green light"

I Hate (read LOVE) it when that happens

The lights again..

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 26th, 2017 at 02:21 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 02:48 PM   #48

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Here is a weird fun NON-UFO bit of history or something...

The Faery Folklorist: The Wollaton Park Gnomes

Phantoms and Monsters: Pulse of the Paranormal

https://www.academia.edu/30103864/Wo...ape_Transcript
Whackadoodle. That is all.

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Old July 26th, 2017, 03:12 PM   #49

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[QUOTE=

"...Stayed very steady and projected long tongues of red, yellow and green light"

I Hate (read LOVE) it when that happens

The lights again..[/QUOTE]

Something like this one from France:
Click the image to open in full size.
Beldar is the pilot:
Click the image to open in full size.
"Beldar" had his own experience and is now a UFO activist.

Apparently a sequel to Close Encounters is coming out.

Spielberg on UFOs:

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 26th, 2017 at 03:18 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2017, 04:23 AM   #50

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Cave Junction Oregon, 1927:
Click the image to open in full size.

Heppner, Oregon, 1957:

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
I LOVE the description of nine UFOs at the end of the article.

Twin Falls, ID, 1947


Click the image to open in full size.
Artist's rendition. Note the pod on the side of ID drawing and the white "pod" on Cave Junction UFO. Both crafts (same perhaps), are not a perfect disc, but somewhat rectangular. Even has the thickened rim in the newspaper drawing.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Todd Feinman; July 28th, 2017 at 04:57 AM.
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