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Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:42 PM   #11

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Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
Catalonian language survived to this day and age, why wouldn't it in the future?

Friend, everything is possible. For example, the Iberian peninsula was once a Muslim, today it is Catholic???

( I'm glad that my country is Catholic, if I were a Muslim I could not drink my glass of wine. joker hehehe ) hug
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:00 PM   #12

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Yap, it's the case. Flemish independentists are saying it loud: they don't see why they should pay for the lazy Walloon unemployed.

Not that it can't be a reasonable reason to ask independence. But I have difficulties to see where's the real nationalism with that kind of arguments. Szekelyek, at least, are living a poorer region of Romania, and still want their autonomy … I believe more in their nationalism than in the Flemish one
Why? The Flemish one is far more rational. The Hungarian one makes no sense. One of the poorest region of Romania would become a poor enclave. What's the point of that?

Also, the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania (UDMR) is the one ruling that region, so it is the one to be blamed for how things are there. UDMR has been part of the Government plenty of times, so it's not like it was unable to do anything. During some elections, they bribed ethnic Hungarian voters with Vegeta.

Click the image to open in full size.

Ethnic Hungarian peasants are still manually using wooden instruments to plough. Instead of fighting to fix that, UDMR knows it's easier to just get votes by talking about stuff like autonomy. It's also easier to get votes from a poor electorate.

Whenever the Party is in power, everything is fine, whenever it's not, it starts talking about how oppressed Hungarians are. It's using ethnic conflict as a weapon for political gains. "Put us in power or we'll hurt your stability" is how it rolls.

How can an ethnic Hungarian living in Romania be a nationalist when Hungary exists? If someone thinks he's being oppressed or just doesn't like being an ethnic minority, why not move? They're not like the Kurds, Tuaregs and other ethnicities, which don't have a state where they are the ethnic majority. What's the point of Hungary 2.0 in Romania, Hungary 3.0 in Slovakia, Hungary 4.0 in Serbia, etc.?

How does oppression from the Romanian government work, when UDMR has been the party that has been in power for the most amount of time (post-1989)? It's ridiculous. They've been in the Opposition for a total of 6 years (1990-1996). They've been part of the governmental coalition for 16 years and supported the Government while not being in the coaliton for 5 years. https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniune...omânia#Alegeri

Hungary recently blocked Romania from getting into the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, because of some stuff involving a high school (where Hungarian is used) being closed in Romania (Romania offered three other options, one of which is a high school where Hungarian is used), and keeps claiming Hungarians are being discriminated, right when the Parliament is talking about passing a law greatly favouring Hungarians in Romania (the status quo is that if a minority is 20% of an administrative unit, it gets to officially use its language; it seems this will be lowered to 10%, which is something UDMR fought for).

Orban has been searching for a reason to feud with Romania over the discrimination of Hungarians in Romania ever since he took office (he even pictured himself next to maps showing Greater Hungary; I'm talking about the current mandate, which started in 2010). This is the best he was able to find.

People like this guy won votes talking about oppression, autonomy and independence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attila_Verestóy

My favourite nickname given to him is: the Chainsaw of God.

Anyway, I'm totally in favour of Székelyföld becoming independent. We'd get rid of UDMR (I used to like them, but they are now the most extremist party we have in Parliament and it's willing to severely damage the country, just because it's not in power) and we'll be able to charge them triple the price for anything.

Btw, the Romanian minority in Székelyföld is treated far worse by the Hungarians there than the Hungarian minority in Romania.

Last edited by Offspring; September 22nd, 2017 at 02:09 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:11 PM   #13

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"Vegeta. V vse se meša!" (it mixes into everything) Never was their own slogan more fitting.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:11 PM   #14

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Why? The Flemish one is far more rational. The Hungarian one makes no sense….
Have I said that it's rational ? I mean, nationalism …

Thank You for the extended explanations, btw !
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:17 PM   #15

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"Vegeta. V vse se meša!" (it mixes into everything) Never was their own slogan more fitting.
Tbf, Vegeta is awesome. One of the fast meals I made as a student was boiling peas in water with Vegeta, then mixing the peas with couscous and adding butter.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Have I said that it's rational ? I mean, nationalism …

Thank You for the extended explanations, btw !
You're welcome!

If you're not using rationality, then what are you using as a way to measure/compare the movements?

I heard the Flemish are sometimes mistreated by the Walloons, like when calling for ambulances (forced to use French).
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:18 PM   #16

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Deaf, it's kind of weird how history spins, isn't it? Wasn't Flanders quite a rich land with famous mercenaries in the middle ages? Then Waloonia took over when its cole was driving the industrialisation in Belgium. And then oversees commerce became more important, giving rise to Flanders and its ports. And each time the one with the upper hand gets all cocky and treats the other part of the country badly. How did you guys manage to keep together for so long, even with the Germans in the East of the country?!

Offspring, sure thing, vegeta is awesome. We use it a lot. Makes the beef soup taste better.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:25 PM   #17

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The following happened twice:

I was reading forums related to video games. A nation-based competition is announced. Small countries start asking to be put together (Czechs and Slovaks want to reform Czechoslovakia, people want to reform Yugoslavia, stuff like that), because they don't have enough expert players.

The Flemish and Walloons ask for separate teams, even tho they'd be beaten even more savagely.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:46 PM   #18

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Originally Posted by Shtajerc View Post
Deaf, it's kind of weird how history spins, isn't it? Wasn't Flanders quite a rich land with famous mercenaries in the middle ages? Then Waloonia took over when its cole was driving the industrialisation in Belgium. And then oversees commerce became more important, giving rise to Flanders and its ports. And each time the one with the upper hand gets all cocky and treats the other part of the country badly. How did you guys manage to keep together for so long, even with the Germans in the East of the country?!

Your question reveals the problem raised by not understanding history. (I'm not referring to You, but to local politicians !)

The answer is in the question: the complementarity of the two regions made it possible. Economic upside-down, as affecting in oposing way the two regions, permitted the flourishing region to aliment the decaying one. At country level, sometimes the sum was zero, but more often plus.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:49 PM   #19

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Originally Posted by deaf tuner View Post
Your question reveals the problem raised by not understanding history. (I'm not referring to You, but to local politicians !)

The answer is in the question: the complementarity of the two regions made it possible. Economic upside-down, as affecting in oposing way the two regions, permitted the flourishing region to aliment the decaying one. At country level, sometimes the sum was zero, but more often plus.
As long as it works out. In the end probably both sides know that it's better to help each other than becoming the periphery of the two neighbouring countries to the Southwest and Northeast.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:52 PM   #20
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Why? The Flemish one is far more rational. The Hungarian one makes no sense. One of the poorest region of Romania would become a poor enclave. What's the point of that?
Autonomy is not independence, it is just the self government of the local inhabitants. Székelyföld being independent of course has no reality and i don't think if it is demanded at all.

here is their proposal for how they imagine their autonomy, it is not secret

DAHR - Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania - The special statute autonomous region of Szeklerland in Romania



Quote:
How can an ethnic Hungarian living in Romania be a nationalist when Hungary exists? If someone thinks he's being oppressed or just doesn't like being an ethnic minority, why not move?
i guess for the same reason why the Romanians didn't move out from Hungary before 1918.
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