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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:03 PM   #31

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There are countries which are enclaves. Lesotho is the biggest. Why are you treating it as an impossibility?
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:11 PM   #32

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If you want to remove independence from the discussion, fine.

What about ethnic tensions? Is it more likely that this will cause more or less ethnic tensions? Same goes for relations between Hungary and Romania. Do you think they'll improve or deteriorate?

Last edited by Offspring; September 22nd, 2017 at 05:16 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:20 PM   #33
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A country in the context of this thread is being used as connotation of external sovereignty which is the only advantage that I can see because in that situation there is the exercise of self determination. Autonomous regions like Scotland and those that had been mentioned are territories which were absorbed by more powerful political entities in the process of domination by one over the other historically. As succinctly pointed out there are those who choose to just stop as autonomous jurisdiction and never overshoot beyond that to become an independent nation. The reason varies but one thing that I can see as the ultimate reason of the same specially those which was given the opportunity to choose via democratic process like a referendum is having been treated fairly well by the central government. I also see comfort of being identified as member and part of a larger and more powerful political entity which also translates towards having a better economic benefit being another possible reason of not detaching from the central government.

The cultural assimilation of each others society is also a reason of not departing from the union such as in the case of the United Kingdom, where it is easy to call each other as Scottish, English, Welsh but can also comfortably call themselves as British in as much as the people of Northern Ireland can call themselves Irish and identify themselves with all ease as citizens of the U.K. all together with rest of the union members. Certainly, I am stating these matters in very generalized perspective and with apologies to the sensitivity of some nationalists who are forum members.

Other cultural aspects such as religion and language maybe among the basis of the desire to attain independence only if there is intolerance of each other's usage of the same. The intolerance could be an adage of the cultural makeup of the minority or the central authority or both. So there are society who don't have such kind of issue in view of the practice of co-existence the way such happen in Germany. But in situations where there is no desire by the other culture that faith or other forms of cultural practices can be done by the other, then, the same can transcend unto nationalistic movement which triggers secessionist intentions and breakdown of union of regions.

To my humble opinion, the advantages is very subjective because each cultural and historical makeup of every ethnic group who belong to a particular nation or country is peculiar.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:21 PM   #34
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I also meant the part where I'm saying the state should treat it as if it's the first step towards independence. Look at what's happening in Spain and look at what happened with Kosovo. Why on Earth would we want that?

You mentioned there are regions like that in Europe. My reply is that I couldn't possibly care less.
then i can't really add more to it.

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You're absolutely wrong. Plenty of Romanian nationalists from Transylvania did go to Romania.

Some Romanian nationalists were imprisoned for treason by Hungarians.

The Romanian nationalists who remained weren't fine with being part of Hungary. They wanted Transylvania to be part of Romania.

30 000 Romanian Transylvanian soldiers who fought for Austria-Hungary and were captured by Russia were released to fight for Romania, btw.
Your comparison is deeply flawed.
From a demographic perspective it was an insignificant part that left Hungary. At the end it is not an alternative to move away from your birthplace unless under immediete physical threat, neither back then nor today. Condemned to live together. :P

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In a thread where people talk about Catalonia and Hungarians in Romania are mentioned, it makes perfect sense to mention that an independent Hungary does exist, while an independent Catalonia does not.
Technically they already have Andorra, i wonder why don't they all move there .
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:25 PM   #35

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I really don't see how I'm not getting my point across. Romanian nationalists who decided to remain in Transylvania wanted to become part of Romania. You're saying this is the same as Hungarian nationalists who want to remain in Romania, while also saying they only want autonomy.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:30 PM   #36

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then i can't really add more to it.
You can show examples where it works fine and I can bring up Kosovo and Catalunia. You can say it mostly works fine, while I can say I'm bothered by the exceptions. It's a weak point to make.

What I mean by saying I don't care is that I don't want my country to just copy paste what others are doing just for the sake of doing what others are doing.

And I can of course bring up the fact that there are plenty of ethnic minorities who don't want autonomy, so the Hungarians here should do as they do.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:34 PM   #37
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Very poor people (even for Romanian standards) constantly voting with the same party is also irrational. So, maybe their desires are irrational.
And then imagine, if the Székelys got autonomy, you would automaticly divide the Transylvanian Hungarian voters' political interests (since around half of them are Székelys who would be affected by autonomy). And within a Székely autonomy there would be more space for internal political pluralism. Of course many Transylvanian Hungarians are fed up too with the RMDSZ politicians but they are all forced to stick together if they want any meaningful political representation (and not just 1 symbolic MP as other minorities).

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If you want to remove independence from the discussion, fine.

What about ethnic tensions? Is it more likely that this will cause more or less ethnic tensions? Same goes for relations between Hungary and Romania. Do you think they'll improve or deteriorate?
it would satify a great symbolic desire for many Transylvanian Hungarians and Hungarians in general, and imo it would certainly be an opportunity for Romania to "win the hearts" of the Székelys.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:36 PM   #38

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Sounds good! Amazon has:
https://www.amazon.com/Podravka-Vege...eywords=vegeta
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:41 PM   #39
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I really don't see how I'm not getting my point across. Romanian nationalists who decided to remain in Transylvania wanted to become part of Romania. You're saying this is the same as Hungarian nationalists who want to remain in Romania, while also saying they only want autonomy.
what i'm saying is people in general want to remain in their homeland whatever is the political situation whatever is their political preference, unless very extreme circumstances arise (such as physical threat). And i think it is how it should be, can't expect people to leave their native land, even if you like their opinions or not.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 05:46 PM   #40

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Originally Posted by Tulun View Post
what i'm saying is people in general want to remain in their homeland whatever is the political situation whatever is their political preference, unless very extreme circumstances arise (such as physical threat). And i think it is how it should be, can't expect people to leave their native land, even if you like their opinions or not.
You gave Romanians in Transylvania as an example and I explained why it's wrong.

I'm not talking about people in general. I'm talking about nationalists. If a Hungarian wants to live in a state where Hungarians are an ethnic majority, Hungary exists.

In International Law, this actually does count. It's easier for an ethnicity to argue about a homeland (a state where they are the majority) than for an ethnicity to get a second one. The fact that Albania exists was a very strong argument against Kosovo's independence. The fact that there are talks about Greater Albania (those two uniting) shows how good the argument was.

Last edited by Offspring; September 22nd, 2017 at 06:29 PM.
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