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Old December 29th, 2017, 08:54 AM   #41
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Well, current interest rates are so close to zero they might as well not exist at all. The idea that “you’d be better off putting it aside” is faulty because experience shows that you won’t put it aside. This is exactly the same argument that applies to letting you control your own social security benefits: the fact is, the forced savings means that the social security will actually be there when you need it and not spent long before you need it. It doesn’t say good things about peoples’ habits but that’s the reality of human behavior.
Well, it could be put in a "locked account", and to unlock he account you'd need to prove you're out of work...At least it would not be wasted for those who are never out of work
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Old December 29th, 2017, 01:01 PM   #42

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Well, it could be put in a "locked account", and to unlock he account you'd need to prove you're out of work...At least it would not be wasted for those who are never out of work
I think the point of calling it unemployment insurance would then be lost. Most people will be unemployed at some point in their careers at least briefly but some people will be unemployed multiple times or for a long period depending on when in the business cycle they went out of work and how in demand their skills are.

When I was younger the idea of individual accounts seemed like a good idea but then came the great recession and while I was lucky to have just gotten out of the military and gone back to school several friends who had just graduated with a degree were stuck working as baristas or unemployed for over a year because there simply wasn't very much hiring going on. Then my first job after university the company was bought out by a competitor who only kept about 20% of the staff and I found myself unemployed despite having experience and a degree.

It didn't last very long but with a bit worse luck on timing or a medical/car accident I could have been set into a spiral of debt very difficult to get out of without unemployment being available. Since unemployment is tied to the individual states and I only worked freelance part time for most of school my previous years of employment in different states wouldn't have counted in the state I went to school and started a job in if it was just a pay as you go account unless it was done at the federal level so it would be very easy for people to fall through the cracks not to mention how would a federal system of individual accounts get started since there would be a several year lag while people had to pay into an account before being able to draw anything?
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Old December 29th, 2017, 01:06 PM   #43

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So far the best answer to this question was the first one - Menshevik's proposal of a universal income. It is the most efficient, the fairest, and eliminates the philosophical discussion from the picture (which is important, because philosophical differences in politics inevitably bog down along partisan lines.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #44

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So far the best answer to this question was the first one - Menshevik's proposal of a universal income. It is the most efficient, the fairest, and eliminates the philosophical discussion from the picture (which is important, because philosophical differences in politics inevitably bog down along partisan lines.
Okay, I'm all for that, but then the problem of mathematics comes up. Where is all that money supposed to come from?
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Old December 29th, 2017, 03:18 PM   #45

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Okay, I'm all for that, but then the problem of mathematics comes up. Where is all that money supposed to come from?
It will necessarily come from the elimination of a slew of other government programs which currently provide benefits.

We'd have to first see how much capital the elimination of the social services sector opens up for the budget and then figure out how to fund the remainder, probably through tax increases on the wealthy, and upper middle classes.

I also had a somewhat strange idea for a tax, where high income tax payers are given the option of paying their taxes by buying government bonds, the interest on which is then split between the buyer and the UBI program.

And of course the basics - simplifying the tax code to eliminate loopholes which allow those who can afford a team of tax attorneys to pay 50% or less of their fair share.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 03:24 PM   #46

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It will necessarily come from the elimination of a slew of other government programs which currently provide benefits.

We'd have to first see how much capital the elimination of the social services sector opens up for the budget and then figure out how to fund the remainder, probably through tax increases on the wealthy, and upper middle classes.

I also had a somewhat strange idea for a tax, where high income tax payers are given the option of paying their taxes by buying government bonds, the interest on which is then split between the buyer and the UBI program.

And of course the basics - simplifying the tax code to eliminate loopholes which allow those who can afford a team of tax attorneys to pay 50% or less of their fair share.
Then, we'll run into another problem. Remember when I used to live in Asia? While there, I saw a lot of companies and individuals who had moved there to avoid taxes. If you tax those who have more, many of them will move their money away, which hurts the economy and puts more strain on the remaining individuals paying. And, as for eliminating the loop holes, you need to keep in mind that a lot of those loop holes were put there by people at the top. Actually eliminating them won't be easy.

Still, don't get me wrong. Like I said before, I'm all for that. I just don't know if it's going to work.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #47

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Then, we'll run into another problem. Remember when I used to live in Asia? While there, I saw a lot of companies and individuals who had moved there to avoid taxes. If you tax those who have more, many of them will move their money away, which hurts the economy and puts more strain on the remaining individuals paying. And, as for eliminating the loop holes, you need to keep in mind that a lot of those loop holes were put there by people at the top. Actually eliminating them won't be easy.

Still, don't get me wrong. Like I said before, I'm all for that. I just don't know if it's going to work.
Well you've hit the nail on the head with that. I don't doubt that if we put the best economic minds to coming up with a workable solution to UBI, we could have it solved relatively quickly.

But as you've pointed out, those in power are at the moment more interested in protecting their own wealth and the wealth of their class, to the detriment of the greater good.

In the end it will depend on either the folks at the top finally having some vision, or otherwise a revolt from the bottom.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 03:49 PM   #48
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I believe the top 1% wealthiest should be tested/searched and the maximum sentence allowed applied. In Texas, that's 99 years for one ounce of pot (~28 grams).
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Old December 29th, 2017, 03:56 PM   #49

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I believe the top 1% wealthiest should be tested/searched and the maximum sentence allowed applied. In Texas, that's 99 years for one ounce of pot (~28 grams).
This, in turn, though, sounds like a bias against people who are well off. Let's keep in mind that being successful is not a crime. People who are extremely wealthy tend to have more influence and tools available to them, but that is one reason we all strive to be wealthy.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #50
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This, in turn, though, sounds like a bias against people who are well off. Let's keep in mind that being successful is not a crime. People who are extremely wealthy tend to have more influence and tools available to them, but that is one reason we all strive to be wealthy.
Let me suggest that if you're that wealthy (especially in Texas), you are not likely going to prison for simple possession of illegal drugs, let alone 99 years for possession of 28 grams of pot.
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