Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 30th, 2017, 12:17 AM   #51

Dan Howard's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2014
From: Australia
Posts: 2,600

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 View Post
Then, we'll run into another problem. Remember when I used to live in Asia? While there, I saw a lot of companies and individuals who had moved there to avoid taxes. If you tax those who have more, many of them will move their money away, which hurts the economy and puts more strain on the remaining individuals paying. And, as for eliminating the loop holes, you need to keep in mind that a lot of those loop holes were put there by people at the top. Actually eliminating them won't be easy.

Still, don't get me wrong. Like I said before, I'm all for that. I just don't know if it's going to work.
The new Saudi leader has one solution: arrest all the wealthy people and torture them until they give you all their money. That's how Sulla fixed Rome's treasury too.

Last edited by Dan Howard; December 30th, 2017 at 12:41 AM.
Dan Howard is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 30th, 2017, 12:30 AM   #52

Dan Howard's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2014
From: Australia
Posts: 2,600

1. Nationalise all utilities and services - water, electricity, telephony, transportation, etc. These are monopolies owned by the people, not private companies.

2. Nationalise all resources like minerals, water, oil , timber, etc. Lease these to private companies for development and exploitation.

3. Institute public companies that directly compete in the market. For example, a commonwealth bank and commonwealth insurance company will provide basic banking and insurance services for reasonable fees. Private banks and insurance companies can compete with these in any way they like.

4. Remove all private land ownership. No more freehold. All land is occupied by securing a long-term lease from the commonwealth.


Use the revenue from the above to pay for public services and universal income. As long as corruption is kept to a minimum and there is appropriate oversight, public enterprises will always return more dividends compared to a private company.

Last edited by Dan Howard; December 30th, 2017 at 12:36 AM.
Dan Howard is offline  
Old December 30th, 2017, 01:23 AM   #53
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 10,704

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific_Victory View Post
So far the best answer to this question was the first one - Menshevik's proposal of a universal income. It is the most efficient, the fairest, and eliminates the philosophical discussion from the picture (which is important, because philosophical differences in politics inevitably bog down along partisan lines.
It does not eliminate the philosophy at all

A universal income necessarily devaluates work (if your salary is Y and by doing nothing you get X then the value of your work is Y - X ) ... and secondly it assumes there is a pool of magical money that can be distrubuted no matter what.... where that money comes from has never been made clear
tomar is online now  
Old December 30th, 2017, 01:27 AM   #54
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 10,704

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Howard View Post
1. Nationalise all utilities and services - water, electricity, telephony, transportation, etc. These are monopolies owned by the people, not private companies.

.
Just a question: have you lived in countries where such services are nationalized ?

I have..... the result ? the service is crap.... this includes having to wait YEARS to get the service... and having no where to trun if god forbid, you have some sort of dispute with the monopolist...
tomar is online now  
Old December 30th, 2017, 01:34 AM   #55
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 10,704

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevev View Post
Let me suggest that if you're that wealthy (especially in Texas), you are not likely going to prison for simple possession of illegal drugs, let alone 99 years for possession of 28 grams of pot.
I believe the bolsheviks went after the "kulaks" and other wealthy people because they were "ennemy of the people"... we know how that went


What Does It Take to Be in the Top 1 Percent? Not As Much As You Think - U.S. Global Investors

To be considered in the top 1 percent, household income is at least $521,411.

After taxes that comes to about $360K or $30K per month

That's not going to stop anyone from going to prison...... getting a good lawyer, yes......
tomar is online now  
Old December 30th, 2017, 03:29 AM   #56

Belgarion's Avatar
Cynical Optimist
 
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Australia
Posts: 5,804

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomar View Post
Just a question: have you lived in countries where such services are nationalized ?

I have..... the result ? the service is crap.... this includes having to wait YEARS to get the service... and having no where to trun if god forbid, you have some sort of dispute with the monopolist...
I have...in Australia before the peoples assets were sold off for short term gain by shortsighted governments. As a result our power and water prices have skyrocketed, infrastructure is neglected and telecommunications is still hit and miss for a large number of people. It was not perfect before but privatisation in Australia has failed.
Belgarion is offline  
Old December 30th, 2017, 03:35 AM   #57
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 10,704

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
I have...in Australia before the peoples assets were sold off for short term gain by shortsighted governments. As a result our power and water prices have skyrocketed, infrastructure is neglected and telecommunications is still hit and miss for a large number of people. It was not perfect before but privatisation in Australia has failed.
I would not know about Australia... but are you sure its not a case of "it was better before" ?
What I've see elsewhere is a failure of government monopolies to deliver and appalling service
tomar is online now  
Old December 30th, 2017, 04:11 AM   #58

Jake10's Avatar
Guardian Knight
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 11,780
Blog Entries: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevev View Post
Let me suggest that if you're that wealthy (especially in Texas), you are not likely going to prison for simple possession of illegal drugs, let alone 99 years for possession of 28 grams of pot.

Of course, but what I'm referring to is the motive for the comment. We've seen several posts regarding biases against poor people, but that does not mean we can be bias in the opposite direction.
Jake10 is offline  
Old December 30th, 2017, 04:22 AM   #59

Jake10's Avatar
Guardian Knight
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 11,780
Blog Entries: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Howard View Post
The new Saudi leader has one solution: arrest all the wealthy people and torture them until they give you all their money. That's how Sulla fixed Rome's treasury too.

But, is he going to arrest himself? I take it he's not poor?
Jake10 is offline  
Old December 30th, 2017, 04:49 AM   #60

Rodger's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: US
Posts: 3,477

I can't speak for other nations. Welfare in the U.S. is complicated. I have worked for nearly 26 years with a population primarily on Welfare: cash assistance, food stamps, Medicaid, public or subsidized housing. I have worked long enough to see the 3rd generation of some of these children on welfare. A temporary tool or aid to assist those who have fallen on hard times is one thing. Relying upon or expecting long term or life long entitlements are another. In many cases, the adult recipient has substance abuse problems (drugs and/or alcohol) and often has mental health issues, ranging from depression or anxiety to bi-polar or schizophrenia. Multi generation recipients have often fallen into the trap of not finishing high school, or obtaining a G.E.D. Things are bleak for many. Many struggle to provide basics. Some have learned to milk the system. I once worked with a woman who had 4 children in her home: her own and a niece. She had 3 and herself on SSI, which is really federal welfare, as it is given to children or adults with a "disability" who have not paid into Social Security. She also was receiving about $400 in fodd stamps and was living in public housing, where her rent was under $100 per month. This was in the early 1990s. She probably had about $2500 in tax free cash coming in, in addition to the food stamps. At the time, I was probably making $1500 per month, before taxes and deductions. My family could have qualified for various assistance programs. I must say I got rather irritated when she continually spoke about being poor. She had new furniture, including nice paintings on the wall (replicas, of course - which had come from the local rent a center). I had hand me down furniture from my parents. When you walked into her residence, the temperature inside had to be in the mid 70s. I kept my heat on 64 degrees, as I could barely afford my utilities. I felt like something was wrong, as I was paying taxes to support a rather lavish lifestyle (the cost of living in my area is quite reasonable). This family had extras that I simply could not afford, even though i was working a full time job. Weeding out those who abuse the system is a must, in my opinion. Helping those who need to get a diploma or G.E.D. is important, as well as offering substance abuse and/or mental health treatment is vital. The problem is, many in these situations decline such services. A few years ago, they tried work to welfare in the U.S. The problem is always the children. If you remove the benefits from the parent, the children suffer and you likely create the next generation who will have difficulty providing for themselves.

Last edited by Rodger; December 30th, 2017 at 04:54 AM.
Rodger is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
drug, recipients, tests, welfare



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
University Religious Tests betgo European History 0 August 27th, 2012 07:22 PM
The relevance of Intelligence tests? Zeno Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 4 August 25th, 2011 06:09 PM
Welfare and the Bourgeoisie philosopher Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 2 December 4th, 2010 09:40 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.