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View Poll Results: Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?
Yes 9 34.62%
No 11 42.31%
Other 6 23.08%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 2nd, 2018, 09:01 AM   #21

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Originally Posted by ameteurhistorian View Post
It's also probably worth mentioning that many, if not most, public school teachers are parents themselves who have their children go into the same system they work in. A lot of people don't seem to appreciate that teachers see education from both sides as both an educator and as a parent, and would want to make sure that the education that their students receive would be the kind they'd want their own kids to have.
Exactly right. It's funny you mention this as both my wife and I have our daughter in our classes. Her day consists of her mom for 90 minutes and me for 45 later in the day. I don't think there is any student who can legitimately be upset at her teachers more than her .
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 12:38 PM   #22

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I was wondering about "Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young":

If we put that interrogation on the Public Schools, can't we put it on Private Schools too?

If we are questioning Schools, can't we question also Parents?

Is (any form of) education an indoctrination?
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 12:46 PM   #23

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There is definitely an agenda, whether recognized or acknowledged by the rank and file staff. My 9 year old has been told since kindergarten that if does anything that is deemed to demonstrate "violence'" like making his finger in the form of a gun and saying "bang," there will be consequences. In his primary reader most of the stories he reads to learn "how to read" have a subtle - or not so subtle, political-socio message, like Juan and Jose who live in different countries, but can't visit each other, or Susie who wants to know why every president was a white man (must have been written pre 2008). Roughhousing, even as play, is strictly forbidden. According to him, there are even occasional discussions about the presidency by his teacher. I have said for a while that having mostly female teachers at the primary school level makes it difficult for many to relate to what I will call a typical boy.
If you don't understand how making a finger-gun and pointing it at people is an implicit threat, I'm not sure you understand how firearms work. In today's America, the prevalence of firearms, laxity of enforcement or absence of firearms control measures, and absence of quality mental health services make school shootings a regular feature of our nation. Administrators and teachers need to take even seemingly-small gestures like this with seriousness, even, or especially, at a young age.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 12:52 PM   #24

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can somebody point me to how in real life would you be able to separate education from indoctrination?

you always have to start form somewhere, and that somewhere is seen as indoctrination by those who don't agree with it.

The easiest example of all: people can't agree if there's a god or not.
Those who believe in god think is the burden of the atheists to prove God doesn't exists.
Those who believe there's no god think it's the burden of the believers to prove God exists.
Just deciding from wich of the two points to start when teaching a kid if there is or there is not a god would be considered "indoctrination" by the other group of people.

And the only alternative you have is to not teach him at all and let him come completely freely to his own conclusion, wich would mean you're renouncing to any sort of education wich by the way is probably something seen as bad from both the groups.
And probably even worse than that would lead the kid to all sorts of possible nonsensical conclusions if the kid hasn't developed the instruments needed to study the problem. And once again you fall into the conundrum that those instruments would be considered indoctrination by some, because believers would tell you that faith is a necessary instrument to posses if you're searching for the thruth, atheists would tell you that rationality is a necessary tool to have if you're searching for the thruth.

i think anyone realizes at that point that you would just end up with an incredible waste of resoruces and time and no guarantee on the outcome you'll have with the kid.

Last edited by gustavolapizza; January 2nd, 2018 at 01:02 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 12:55 PM   #25

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Originally Posted by deaf tuner View Post
I was wondering about "Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young":

If we put that interrogation on the Public Schools, can't we put it on Private Schools too?

If we are questioning Schools, can't we question also Parents?

Is (any form of) education an indoctrination?
Well, all education is "indoctrination".

However in the case of public schools, we taxpayers are all paying for them, while in the case of private schools, only the parents and donors to those schools are paying (or at least should be paying) and if the parents want their children indoctrinated into, say, the tenets of a particular religion and know that is happening, that should be their prerogative.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 12:59 PM   #26

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Originally Posted by Aineias Taktikos View Post
If you don't understand how making a finger-gun and pointing it at people is an implicit threat, I'm not sure you understand how firearms work. In today's America, the prevalence of firearms, laxity of enforcement or absence of firearms control measures, and absence of quality mental health services make school shootings a regular feature of our nation. Administrators and teachers need to take even seemingly-small gestures like this with seriousness, even, or especially, at a young age.
5 year olds playing army or cops and robbers is a threat? Not in my world. And if you can't understand that, I have little else to add. You want to know what is a bigger threat? Video games like GTA. I bet most posters here have played that and other games like it. Let's see somebody argue to ban these games. Maybe those who constantly play this need a little mental health treatment, eh?

Last edited by Rodger; January 2nd, 2018 at 01:05 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 01:12 PM   #27

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5 year olds playing army or cops and robbers is a threat? Not in my world. And if you can't understand that, I have little else to add. You want to know what is a bigger threat? Video games like GTA. I bet most posters here have played that and other games like it. Let's see somebody argue to ban these games. Maybe those who constantly play this need a little mental health treatment, eh?
i don't find it hard to believe that a person ending up committing a mass shooting can find insipration in a videogame or a violent movie. But it's just a matter of an already unstable person and the videogame giving the final blow to his mind, not the fact that videogames turn perfectly normal persons into mass murderers. It's like alchool or gambling, majority of people can handle them, some particular people destroy their lives with them. i think instead of banning alchool or violent videogames ruining the fun for everybody would be more useful to be able to develop the ability to identify what kind of people can end up being more weak when exposed to particular situations and provide them the necessary help. Mental issues are all in all still a taboo in our societies and very little is done to tackle them in a proficient way.

Last edited by gustavolapizza; January 2nd, 2018 at 01:14 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 01:16 PM   #28

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Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
Well, all education is "indoctrination". ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
... However in the case of public schools, we taxpayers are all paying for them, while in the case of private schools, only the parents and donors to those schools are paying (or at least should be paying) and if the parents want their children indoctrinated into, say, the tenets of a particular religion and know that is happening, that should be their prerogative.
True.

But, as You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
Well, all education is "indoctrination". ...

So, is there a real difference?

After all, the "subjects" (the kids) aren't asked, it's the others deciding.

Anyway, my (a bit rhetorical) questions were about the "Public" part. Why are we questioning only the "Public"? What say that "Private" isn't a Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?? Just being "Private" suffice to be a warranty while being "Public" isn't?
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 01:26 PM   #29

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Originally Posted by gustavolapizza View Post
i don't find it hard to believe that a person ending up committing a mass shooting can find insipration in a videogame or a violent movie. But it's just a matter of an already unstable person and the videogame giving the final blow to his mind, not the fact that videogames turn perfectly normal persons into mass murderers. It's like alchool or gambling, majority of people can handle them, some particular people destroy their lives with them. i think instead of banning alchool or violent videogames ruining the fun for everybody would be more useful to be able to develop the ability to identify what kind of people can end up being more weak when exposed to particular situations and provide them the necessary help. Mental issues are all in all still a taboo in our societies and very little is done to tackle them in a proficient way.
And I will agree with you. But it absurd, to me, to think that a kindergartner playing army will end with a mass murdered simply because of this. In my day, we all did it and we had much less of the craziness than we do today. Maybe authorities repressing a natural act for a child is just as detrimental or worse? This leads to my point with the video games. Watching movies, tv, the internet - including You Tube (some guy just got shamed for faking his death "live" on his blog) or video games likely does much more damage than a small child using his imagination to play army. I mean come on, half the threads on this site are about military history. Is there something wrong with that infatuation for the p.c. crowd?
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 01:40 PM   #30

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Originally Posted by Rodger View Post
5 year olds playing army or cops and robbers is a threat? Not in my world. And if you can't understand that, I have little else to add. You want to know what is a bigger threat? Video games like GTA. I bet most posters here have played that and other games like it. Let's see somebody argue to ban these games. Maybe those who constantly play this need a little mental health treatment, eh?
It is in a public setting...especially given the current climate we live in. Games are one thing, but you never know what a child has seen, what type of home they are from, etc. I've experienced numerous kids who have family members in gangs...sometimes the kids are in them. If a child points his finger like a gun at school, they will be talked to about why that is not appropriate in public. Get into middle school and you start to see some serious consequences (out of school suspensions/home visits/police visits). Kids are told that there is a time and place for army, cops, etc. School is not one of those places.
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