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View Poll Results: Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?
Yes 9 34.62%
No 11 42.31%
Other 6 23.08%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 2nd, 2018, 12:45 PM   #31

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Originally Posted by gustavolapizza View Post
i don't find it hard to believe that a person ending up committing a mass shooting can find insipration in a videogame or a violent movie. But it's just a matter of an already unstable person and the videogame giving the final blow to his mind, not the fact that videogames turn perfectly normal persons into mass murderers. It's like alchool or gambling, majority of people can handle them, some particular people destroy their lives with them. i think instead of banning alchool or violent videogames ruining the fun for everybody would be more useful to be able to develop the ability to identify what kind of people can end up being more weak when exposed to particular situations and provide them the necessary help. Mental issues are all in all still a taboo in our societies and very little is done to tackle them in a proficient way.
Unfortunately our public schools don't do enough to provide the sort of help that you recommend (I completely agree with your assessment too). I spend more time counseling kids than their counselors...which I am told by kids that the counselors "do nothing ". It's a serious issue that a lot of people aren't taking too seriously.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 06:18 PM   #32

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Originally Posted by Rodger View Post
5 year olds playing army or cops and robbers is a threat? Not in my world. And if you can't understand that, I have little else to add. You want to know what is a bigger threat? Video games like GTA. I bet most posters here have played that and other games like it. Let's see somebody argue to ban these games. Maybe those who constantly play this need a little mental health treatment, eh?
That is the kind of attitude that those without the burden of responsibility can afford to have.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:22 PM   #33
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Yes and no. It's more like low common demoninators turn formal education in to a perhaps overrated and conformist institution.

Study is a powerful tool; formal education is overrated for that reason......(most people either don't study as much as they think they do, or their being told what to study, like some mediocre and overpriced textbook)
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:26 PM   #34

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Originally Posted by Aineias Taktikos View Post
That is the kind of attitude that those without the burden of responsibility can afford to have.
As someone who works in a school, and has taught at the elementary, middle, and high school levels, I can certainly say even people with "the burden of responsibility" can "afford to have" Rodger's attitude. If one of my boys makes a finger-gun and gives me a "pew pew pew," I give him a "pow pow pow" right back, he feigns being hit, breaks into a smile, and we form a bond, something which is of substantial importance in an educational environment. Now imagine that boy is instead punished with suspension because of some "zero tolerance policy." How could that possibly not alienate him? Because he's going to see the world exactly as Rodger and I do, knowing he had no ill will, knowing he was doing no one any harm, and think to himself, "Not only do these people not like me, they won't even tolerate me." Taking action against genuine violence which brings harm to others makes sense; that is responsibility. Cracking down on boys playing in a natural, healthy mode is probably harmful in its own right. An inability -- or more accurately, a refusal -- to differentiate between these is a mark of either incompetence as an educator, or being under the direct authority of an incompetent administrator. In America, I suspect it is more often the latter than the former.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 09:29 PM   #35
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No, but you're free to send your kids to a private school if you believe in that. Public education is designed if nothing else not to spread the problems of class inequality which is totally unnecessary in the twenty-first century.

If you want to send your kids to rich kids school (and receive no statically proven academic benefits what so ever) then you can pay for your kids education out of your own pocket. I've got no problem with that. Just don't try to make the rest of us like yourself.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 10:24 PM   #36
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No, but you're free to send your kids to a private school if you believe in that.
Unfortunately they are not free if you really believe they're better.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:20 PM   #37

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In which country?


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Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Are Public Schools designed to be propaganda systems to indoctrinate the young or are the overwhelming majority of the Adult population (i.e. parents, teachers, principles, school administration, politicians, US Secretary of Education, ect.) really so oblivious/ignorant/stupid that they do not recognize the blatant miseducation/abuse that is occurring year after year, generation after generation, ect.? Or, do you challenge the premise of the question entirely? Thoughts?

As a reference, see short video where Linguist/Commentator Noam Chomsky discusses the Public Education System:
The answer to this question depends on which country you are considering: a Socialist country like China [even if with a market economy]? North Korea? Yes ... public schools work also in that way.

Different considerations can be made about the public school of a country like Italy [where the moderates win the elections, despite we have all attended to a public school ....], a Western Republic. Here public school is slightly oriented towards left [a good majority of the teachers and the professors are leftists, it's known], anyway the programs are didactic and the educational system, generally, is suitably neutral from a political perspective.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 12:04 AM   #38

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Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
I voted "Other"--if they're not, they should be, but only if by "indoctrination" you mean teaching children about why their country and it's system is the best--or at least very good--and giving children the skills and knowledge they need to succeed in their country.

But if you mean by "indoctrination" teaching young children about what's wrong with their country or with the world, or any a certain political party or ruler should continue in power, then no, they should not be. You have to be able to see the good things before you are ready to see the flaws. And "indoctrination" to propagate a partisan point of view should have no place in a democratic or republican system where public schools are funding by the tax dollars of people who have diverse political views.
But what if it is not? I'm a bit flabbergasted that the majority of people think teaching their kids to "love their country" or to think their country is the best is a good thing. Wouldn't it be better to teach them to critically examine and assess the flaws of their country to make it better in the future? I do not get the idea of love for an artificial construct like a country.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 12:50 AM   #39

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But what if it is not? I'm a bit flabbergasted that the majority of people think teaching their kids to "love their country" or to think their country is the best is a good thing. Wouldn't it be better to teach them to critically examine and assess the flaws of their country to make it better in the future? I do not get the idea of love for an artificial construct like a country.
If you hold no affection for your country, why would you care about making it better in the future? You could argue, "For the sake of your fellow citizens," yet if you hold no affection for your country itself, then there's really no meaningful difference between a fellow citizen and a non-citizen, because they're all just people who incidentally reside in a variety of countries, none of which you love more than any other, so that doesn't follow. In fact, doing good for others might involve neglecting the improvement of your country and improving other countries instead. You could argue, "For your family, who will presumably continue to live in your country," but that doesn't follow, both because it's entirely possible to benefit your family at the expense of your country rather than by improving it, and because it's entirely impossible to immigrate. Indeed, assuming one does care for their family and associates, then in an absence of affection for their homeland, one is very likely to plunder said homeland to the extent possible in service of their family and associates. Finally, you could argue, "Because it benefits you in particular," but that's almost certainly untrue, both because genuine improvements to a country are long-term propositions which likely stand little chance of benefiting anyone influential enough to effectively push for them, and because self-perceived personal interest overlaps only very weakly with national interest, with the two not uncommonly being in outright conflict.

If one wants to see their fellow citizens trying to make their country a better place, encouraging those citizens to love their country is probably wise. By contrast, if one wishes to promote a cold, rational cosmopolitanism, that's fine as well, but do not expect cosmopolitans to do much to "make [their country] better," because improving a country is hard, resource-intensive work, and a group of people who holds no affection for their homeland is unlikely to bother.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 02:44 AM   #40

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Originally Posted by stevev View Post
Unfortunately they are not free if you really believe they're better.
And most people can't afford them, especially all the while they are still paying taxes for the public school. I have never bought into the argument that parents do not have a right to question whatever perceived biases public schools may serve. In my mind, I am a free person, not some peasant or slave who takes what ever is offered with the attitude of, "thank you sir, may I have another." some people seem to think that we are to accept what the schools give us with a smile.
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