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Old February 12th, 2018, 03:31 PM   #1

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IQ: Ranges, Meaning, and Achievement


IQ: Ranges, Meaning, and Achievement

This Thread is intended to present material on IQ research that will be explored by all members that wish to participate. Arguments both for and against (as well as neutral) are all welcome. If members have further research/findings they would like to present, by all means, please do so--any & all contributions are encouraged.


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Consider, a normal IQ score falls between the range 85-115 which is approximately 70% of the population (and only 15% of people have an IQ of 115 or above), while an extended average IQ range tends to encompass those between 80-119 which is "x"% of the population. In order to qualify for the International High IQ Society, one must have an IQ of 125 or above, while entry into Mensa (a High IQ organization that represents the upper 2% of the population) requires an IQ of 2 standard deviations above average (or 130 and above). For the lower end of the bell curve, this will be explored later on in the post (as well as a more proper breakdown of the rest of the distribution).

Now, what do these numbers mean? That is, in principle, what can one do with a 100 IQ? It turns out, many studies have been done linking average IQ scores to completion of College Majors, SAT scores, and GRE (set aside the problematic elements for a moment, of which we can explore later). As for College Majors, studies have revealed a strong correlation for between those who go far into/complete specific college majors and IQ. The breakdown is as follows:

Top End of Spectrum

-Physics & Astronomy (133)
-Mathematical Sciences (130)
-Philosophy (129)
-Materials Engineering (129)
-Economics (128)
-Chemical Engineering (128)
-Other Engineering (128)
-Mechanical Engineering (126)

Bottom End of Spectrum


-Administration (107)
-Home Economics (106)
-Special (106)
-Student Counseling (105)
-Early Childhood (104)
-Social Work (103)

In order to attend College and be successful, it was found that an IQ of 110-115 is standardly required. Now, if a person with a 110-115 IQ attempted to be a Physics & Astronomy major, it has been found that they would quickly run into trouble and likely have to drop out (or fail out) early on. However, they would be successful at other college majors, some of which were listed previously. Then, an individual with a 100 base IQ has been shown to not (currently) be able to attend college successfully.

To put this in practical terms, lets take the example of those with an IQ 2 standard deviations from the norm in the *adult population* (2% of the population), or Physics & Astronomy combined with Mathematical Sciences Majors (closely followed by Philosophy and certain Engineering Majors, but we will limit our discussion to those past the threshold). This indicates that if we took a random sampling of 100 adults, approximately 2 would have a mind currently capable of the "brain power" necessary to do Complex Analysis or Statistical Mechanics (which is in-line with Senior level Physics or Math major cognitive abilities). As for what a 115 IQ would look like in practical terms, such a person would (currently) struggle tremendously to get a Political Science degree if they were able to attain it at all (IQ 120), while they would be able to get a degree in Business (114), Education (110), ect. See list here for more details: [https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/whi...ghest-iq-64811)

Now, IQ links to Standardized Tests such as the SAT and GRE are quite interesting as well--let us proceed with investigating the case of SAT scores. We will use the 1600 score standard (Note: a link to conversions between 2400 to 1600 score standards will be provided under *Sources* if one were curious). Consider, a score of 925 on the SAT (is claimed) to translate to a base 100 IQ. Here is an outline mapping out key points on the Bell Curve:

IQ, SAT, Meaning

- 55, 400, Trainable Moderate Mental Retardation
- 66, 525, Mild Mental Retardation
- 75, 630, Borderline Mental Retardation
- 87, 775, Dull
- 100, 935, Average
- 113, 1100, Bright
- 120, 1200, Very Bright
- 130, 1310, Extremely Bright
- 141, 1445, Briliant
- 151, 1575, Very Brilliant

For convenience, a few figures converted to the 2400 point scale (conversion chart here- [https://blog.prepscholar.com/new-sat...00-to-new-1600) ):

IQ, SAT

- 75, 820
- 87, 1020
- 100, 1260
- 113, 1510
- 120, 1670
- 130, 1840
- 141, 2070
- 151, 2340

[Note: There are various IQ scales, some reach to numbers higher well higher to this, this is a Standard Scale, others could be used with similar (though varying in extent) results]
Follow this link to find an IQ Reference Table which outlines IQ ranges and typical corresponding abilities:

[https://www.easycalculation.com/medi...core-table.php)
Below is a transcription of the outline (IQ range, Category, Typical Ability):

1. 0-24
Profound Mental Retardation
Limited or no ability to communicate, eat, bath, dress and toilet.

2. 25-39
Severe Mental Retardation
Limited ability to communicate, eat, bath, dress and toilet. No academic skills.

3. 40-54
Moderate Mental Retardation
Some independent self-help skills and very basic academic skills.

4. 55-69
Mild Mental Retardation
Usually able to dress/bath independently and can do simple jobs. Elementary school academics.

5. 70-79
Border Line
May live independently with difficulties. Can perform simple and repetitive jobs.

6. 80-89
Low Average
Can complete vocational education and live independently.

7. 90-109
Average
Can complete high school graduation and college with difficulty.

8. 110-119
High Average
Typical level of college graduates.

9. 120-129
Superior
Typical level of persons with doctoral degrees.


10. 130-144
Gifted
Capable of understanding highly, complex academic material.

11. 145-159
Genius
Exception intellectual ability and capable of looking beyond known facts.

12. 160-175
Extraordinary genius
Extraordinary talent like Albert Einstein


Sources

1. www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx
2. [https://www.statisticbrain.com/iq-es...college-major/)
3. What Is An IQ Test? What Is A High IQ Score?
4. [https://www.123test.com/interpretati...f-an-iq-score/)
5. [https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/12/16...q-equivalents/)
6. [https://steemit.com/education/@chhay...is-is-the-case)
7. [https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/whi...ghest-iq-64811)
8. [https://blog.prepscholar.com/new-sat...00-to-new-1600)
9. [https://www.easycalculation.com/medi...core-table.php)
10. [https://www.easycalculation.com/medi...core-table.php)
11. Academic achievement, income, IQ
12. Average IQ of students by college major and gender ratio | Dr. Randal S. Olson
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #2

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There is something to note about people with high IQs, which is that they tend to be very good at dealing with logic, but in some cases these people have difficulty understanding the emotions of others. Hence, the gift of intelligence can also be accompanied with poor social skills, and, while intelligent people seem ideal for leadership positions, their followers can disagree:

Quote:
Intelligence makes for better leaders—from undergraduates to executives to presidents—according to multiple studies. It certainly makes sense that handling a market shift or legislative logjam requires cognitive oomph. But new research on leadership suggests that, at a certain point, having a higher IQ can be viewed as harmful.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...smart-leaders/

This brings up the debate of IQ vs EQ, and the importance of each. It's pretty obvious that both are important, but EQ is very difficult to measure.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:25 AM   #3

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@Jake10
People are simply intimidated by knowledge, which is intensely uncalled for considering we live in the information era, the most tediously (beautifully) rigorous statistics book written for postgraduates could be purchased by anyone on Amazon Kindle, for example. They could purchase any book from the bottom up, they can start from the bottom.

Of course, it goes without saying, not all "high I.Q." people are without empathy. Some are intelligent and empathetic. And who would want a sociopath in leadership?
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:31 AM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by analysis17456 View Post
@Jake10
People are simply intimidated by knowledge, which is intensely uncalled for considering we live in the information era, the most tediously (beautifully) rigorous statistics book written for postgraduates could be purchased by anyone on Amazon Kindle, for example. They could purchase any book from the bottom up, they can start from the bottom.

Of course, it goes without saying, not all "high I.Q." people are without empathy. Some are intelligent and empathetic. And who would want a sociopath in leadership?
I don't believe it's a case of people being intimidated by knowledge. Still, if you have some evidence I'd like to see it. But, I say that it's not the case because intelligent individuals are praised and consulted regularly. For instance, when we look at people like Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, we see that they were/are highly regarded by societies around the world, yet they had a lot of difficulties with human relationships.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:34 AM   #5

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@Jake10
The meritocratic thread by @xMathFanx demonstrates this, let alone my lifetime of experience.

Many people were intimidated by Newton and Einstein, especially people who feel as if they would be made obsolete, such as philosophers during Newton's time. Notice how aggressive Tesla would describe Einstein, how insultingly, for example.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:45 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by analysis17456 View Post
@Jake10
The meritocratic thread by @xMathFanx demonstrates this, let alone my lifetime of experience.

Many people were intimidated by Newton and Einstein, especially people who feel as if they would be made obsolete, such as philosophers during Newton's time. Notice how aggressive Tesla would describe Einstein, how insultingly, for example.
But, this is not a case of people being intimidated by intelligence. This is more a matter of political competition, in which case an individual who gains the attention of others is challenged in an effort to draw that attention form him/her and shift it to the challenger. It may also be a case of envy, because some people may have wanted to be what Einstein and Newton were, but they could never become that. We see it commonly among professional athletes where their rivals point out flaws in them, but it's not a case of them being intimidated by the talent.

I will grant you this, though. Some people try to mock intelligence to cover up their own inadequacies, but that is also not a case of people being intimidated by intelligence.

As for a sociopath in charge, we need to keep in mind that extremely intelligent people usually end up being really good or really bad. They normally don't end up leading average lives.

Last edited by Jake10; February 13th, 2018 at 08:49 AM.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:48 AM   #7

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@Jake10
People hate "know it alls". They're intimidated because they know anything that they say could be corrected by the more intelligent, and they hate being made accountable for it. I used to have a computer networking teacher who got quite frazzled when I dug deeper into the "first principles" of the attenuation coefficient, derivations that are appropriate for its "origins", that is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuation_coefficient

Some teachers just expect students to memorize and apply, these teachers, when met with serious people, can get quite easily intimidated, as do students, because those students would be made to realize how little they actually know.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:51 AM   #8

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"“Now a long haired crank, Einstein by name,

Puts on your high teaching all the blame.”


Also later in 1935 when speaking with The New York Times, Tesla was critical of Einstein stating that his theory of relativity was “a beggar wrapped in purple whom ignorant people take for a king” and “a mass of error and deceptive ideas violently opposed to the teachings of great men of science of the past and even to common sense… the theory wraps all these errors and fallacies and clothes them in magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors…. its exponents are very brilliant men, but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists. Not a single one of the relativity propositions has been proved.”

It is also rumored that when Einstein was asked how it felt to be the smartest man on Earth, he replied, “I wouldn’t know. Ask Nikola Tesla”.Given the nature of the relationship between Einstein and Tesla, it is assumed that if Einstein did indeed say those words, it would make sense that it was a sarcastic remark and not a compliment.

Albert Einstein was a German-born theoretical physicist. He developed the general theory of relativity, one of the two pillars of modern physics. Einstein’s work is also known for its influence on the philosophy of science.

And Nikola Tesla was a Serbian American inventor, electrical engineer, mechanical engineer, physicist, and futurist best known for his contributions to the design of the modern alternating current electricity supply system."
When Einstein Wrote Tesla a Letter - Tesla Got Nasty - Science Vibe
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:52 AM   #9

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Teachers who handle questioning students better than the average (the average doesn't handle it so well) are my best teachers, incidentally, all mathematics/physics teachers.

Addendum:
Also, there was this one very cool computer hardware architecture teacher.

Last edited by analysis17456; February 13th, 2018 at 09:02 AM.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:53 AM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by analysis17456 View Post
@Jake10
People hate "know it alls". They're intimidated because they know anything that they say could be corrected by the more intelligent, and they hate being made accountable for it. I used to have a computer networking teacher who got quite frazzled when I dug deeper into the "first principles" of the attenuation coefficient, derivations that are appropriate for its "origins", that is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuation_coefficient

Some teachers just expect students to memorize and apply, these teachers, when met with serious people, can get quite easily intimidated, as do students, because those students would be made to realize how little they actually know.
Now, you're describing what I mentioned about people who try to cover up their own inadequacies. These people know they are weak, and they try to prevent others from seeing that. Again, I'll grant you that.

But, we also need to keep in mind that extremely intelligent people may not be very nice.
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