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Old April 4th, 2018, 08:32 PM   #1
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Is Islam more successful because it is willing to use violence as a means to an end?


Is Islam more successful at imposing its conservative orthodoxy against liberalism because it is willing to use violence as a means to impose it will against social Liberals in Islamic countries? Like the recent protests radical Islamists against the former governor of Jakarta? Compare this to the loss of the religious right in the culture war, in a way in conservative Christianity doing a lot worse compared Islamism because unlike the Islamist, it is too pacifistic, or at least not willing to push back hard enough social Liberals?
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Old April 4th, 2018, 11:41 PM   #2
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Violence is one aspect only... Other religions have used it as well...

But it would be a mistake to think its the only factor... After all all kinds of ideologies have used violence and ultimately its not enough on its own... There is genuine adherence to the values you mention by a large segment of the muslim population (it varies by country) without the need to impose it on them by violence.

Perhaps an argument can be made that Islam -like christianity ... and communism- has more appeal for the "dispossessed".... and the muslim world is generally poor (with the exception of the gulf states , but their population is very low) with high demographic growth.... One optimistic view is that the muslim world is undergoing the same changes today as latin america was in the 60s or 70s... There there were also bearded guys with AK47s running around and advocating violence..... We'll have to wait and see....
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Old April 5th, 2018, 01:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by tomar View Post
Islam ... and communism- We'll have to wait and see....
During the Cold War, the Communist Jihad against the West was more open. After the collapse of the Soviet Caliphate, the surviving communist regimes never stopped waging Jihad against the West, in a low-key manner though.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 06:24 AM   #4
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I think Islam's extreme intolerance of apostasy and heresy is one of the reasons why it hasn't lost as much influence as Christianity in recent times.

Last edited by CPTANT; April 5th, 2018 at 06:28 AM.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 06:30 AM   #5
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Christianity was no different in the past.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 06:34 AM   #6
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Christianity was no different in the past.
True, but we don't live in the past.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 06:44 AM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomar View Post
Violence is one aspect only... Other religions have used it as well...

But it would be a mistake to think its the only factor... After all all kinds of ideologies have used violence and ultimately its not enough on its own... There is genuine adherence to the values you mention by a large segment of the muslim population (it varies by country) without the need to impose it on them by violence.

Perhaps an argument can be made that Islam -like christianity ... and communism- has more appeal for the "dispossessed".... and the muslim world is generally poor (with the exception of the gulf states , but their population is very low) with high demographic growth.... One optimistic view is that the muslim world is undergoing the same changes today as latin america was in the 60s or 70s... There there were also bearded guys with AK47s running around and advocating violence..... We'll have to wait and see....
Except Hinduism, you mean. Hinduism has never been spread by causing bloodshed. In fact there have no Hindu agents throughout its history entrusted with the specific task of proselytization. Hindu culture has spread to south-east Asia by the force of its thoughts.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 07:04 AM   #8
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A lot of Islam's success and current situation can be traced to the patronage of madrassahs, mosques, and other Islamic universities by the Saudis with all the money they've been swimming in since the discovery of oil. This of course doesn't explain all of Islam's vitality and aggressiveness, but pushing Wahhabism all across the Islamic world by both funding international studies in poorer nations and having a monopoly on the Hajj has given Saudi Islam a wide latitude.

Ironically, the only reasons why the Saudis are in power is because they won a war against the more moderate Hashimites, the same family Muhammad came from.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 09:57 AM   #9
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As a prologue to this discussion, at just what is Islam successful?
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Old April 5th, 2018, 11:58 AM   #10

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Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
As a prologue to this discussion, at just what is Islam successful?
It's exactly what I was wondering. In what is more successful?
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