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Old August 4th, 2018, 07:10 PM   #1

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Argue about feminization of humanity


Feminization of humanity is a persistent topic today.
Some blame extended peace, estrogen in meat or water supply, and lack of masculine models (determination, courage, and physical strength) for the "softening" of humanity.
Another aspect is automation may lower the need of physical strength, which is one major aspect of masculinity.
The persistent topic is that extended peace may lead to corruption and debauchery of the humankind.
Then, a sudden peace after long, persistent conflicts might be equally corrupting, as in the case of Western Jin Dynasty.
In China, there is a persistent argument about the softening of Han people after the Han Dynasty.
How does "softening" or "feminization" happen?
Is extended peace necessarily detrimental?
Why do some people believe in the rejuvenation ability of armed conflicts?
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Old August 4th, 2018, 07:34 PM   #2

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Originally Posted by VHS View Post
Feminization of humanity is a persistent topic today.
Some blame extended peace, estrogen in meat or water supply, and lack of masculine models (determination, courage, and physical strength) for the "softening" of humanity.
Another aspect is automation may lower the need of physical strength, which is one major aspect of masculinity.
The persistent topic is that extended peace may lead to corruption and debauchery of the humankind.
Then, a sudden peace after long, persistent conflicts might be equally corrupting, as in the case of Western Jin Dynasty.
In China, there is a persistent argument about the softening of Han people after the Han Dynasty.
How does "softening" or "feminization" happen?
Is extended peace necessarily detrimental?
Why do some people believe in the rejuvenation ability of armed conflicts?

Civilization is basically the domestication of people. Domestication automatically genetically brings out the softer traits of a species (which for humans is the feminine side). One example is when you domesticate foxes or wolves; their characteristics change. They become softer, more conspicuous, playful, less assertive etc.

To counter this, one must engage in physical activities and be more of the outdoor type. Engaging in exploration, bushcrafting, camping, gardening, general outdoor activities etc. It will build character. While in the wild you still need to engage in intellectual activities (one way to keep occupy is to do multiplications and divisions in your head using methods especially designed for mental calculations). You need to balance the wild and the civilized. Either way will lead to devolution, over masculinization (usually associated with excessive brutality and territoriality) or over feminization (hedonism, passivity, consumerism).


War destroys civilizations and peace builds civilizations. A proper balance would be, during peacetime, events that simulate warfare such as sports etc must be encouraged. Modern sports are too limited though.

Last edited by Eryl Enki; August 4th, 2018 at 09:21 PM.
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Old August 4th, 2018, 08:25 PM   #3
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Modern sports are too limited though.
I've always said American football is too soft. We need more blood, broken bones and general mayhem on the field to build character in our young people.

Helmets are for wimps.
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Old August 4th, 2018, 09:38 PM   #4

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Originally Posted by Cepheus View Post
I've always said American football is too soft. We need more blood, broken bones and general mayhem on the field to build character in our young people.

Helmets are for wimps.
There is always hockey.
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Old August 5th, 2018, 01:06 AM   #5
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I don't think this is a serious problem
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Old August 5th, 2018, 04:02 AM   #6

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I've proposed that the feminization of a species is the reason for Fermii's Paradox. Humanity has survived hundreds of thousands of years, with devastating wars, under a more "masculine" society in general.

I say this absent both political agenda and absolute certainty. Instead I propose it as a theory, with some strong anecdotal evidence behind it.

If it means living with ****ed up wars or dying out as a species...who knows?
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Old August 5th, 2018, 05:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VHS View Post
Feminization of humanity is a persistent topic today.
Some blame extended peace, estrogen in meat or water supply, and lack of masculine models (determination, courage, and physical strength) for the "softening" of humanity.
Another aspect is automation may lower the need of physical strength, which is one major aspect of masculinity.
The persistent topic is that extended peace may lead to corruption and debauchery of the humankind.
Then, a sudden peace after long, persistent conflicts might be equally corrupting, as in the case of Western Jin Dynasty.
In China, there is a persistent argument about the softening of Han people after the Han Dynasty.
How does "softening" or "feminization" happen?
Is extended peace necessarily detrimental?
Why do some people believe in the rejuvenation ability of armed conflicts?

I was always fascinated by Chinese thought in the chaos of the Warring States. It saw the advent of Legalism, Daosim, Mohism, Confucianism and so many others lost to history.



Yet, after the Warring States, it seemed all original Chinese thought ceased. Why? Civilization represent comfort and complacency, there is no need to improve and expand. Chinese civilization was one of the most successful and as a result, the Chinese people became less independent, courageous, and free-thinking than the Europeans who witnessed endless war for thousands of years after the fall of Rome.


Of course, it is interesting how the West became civilized vs. the East. The West became civilized through technology (A kind of cheat) while the East was through thought (Legalism, Confucianism). This was why eastern civilization more successful and it had a greater influence on its people.



Corruption and debauchery is a result of civilized oppression. Humans have lived thousands of years without civilization and developed a strong instinctual will to combat and survive nature. When this is oppressed by civilization, it seeks avenues of escape. The powerful become corrupt as the wealthy pay others to be corrupted. The poor are trapped with no option of escape. Freud wrote in his Civilization and its Discontents that civilization is itself neurotic. By suppressing sexual and violent energy, it leads to psychological deformity. Man, it seems, was not to be placed in chains!


Because such terms as psychosis and neuroticism have fallen out of favor with the scientific community, as well as Freud, it shows science has moved to ignore such issues. Their fix is to give people pills to make them feel better about being a civilized slave, a civilized insect (Since only insects specialize as much as humans). This only bypasses the issue. Man could have become a god or a beast, but it instead chose to become an ant.


The world wars were so violent and bloody because civilization was at a peak at that point. Pent-up energies were unleashed upon the world in the form of hate and violence (All sides were guilty of this). This has allowed civilization to survive a further century. Another world war is needed to unleash the energies built since then, since civilization as grown ever stronger. Unless science can weaken instinct somehow. But to do so would be to kill what Man is - Is this not treason on a species level?



As to the post about out-door activities, yes this is a possible solution. But when works full-time for a living, this becomes difficult.


The only true solution I see would to be to legalize basically everything, make sex less taboo, and craft a militant society.

Last edited by theharkonnen; August 5th, 2018 at 05:19 AM.
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Old August 5th, 2018, 05:35 AM   #8

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I don't think the issue is about feminization vs. masculinization of society; those are terms are just baskets for a variety of characteristics. Things have changed. Technology isn't going away, and we are living in an unsustainable manner. We could suddenly destroy most if the life on the planet; we need a new paradigm. I think it is about impulse control and the ability to forgo short-term gratification, selfishness and greed; we must attempt to conquer our stupid selves. "Civilization" is an ongoing failing human attempt to do this, for mutual benefit.

Last edited by Todd Feinman; August 5th, 2018 at 05:37 AM.
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Old August 5th, 2018, 05:35 AM   #9

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Hard times make strong men.
Strong men make good times.
Good times make weak men.
Weak men make hard times.

Rince and repeat.

Feminization happens with prosperity and we are currently seeing that nowadays. However, I think that won't last, as history has showed us.
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Old August 5th, 2018, 06:28 AM   #10

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On an everyday, practical level - among the average joes and josies, it seems as if the feminization of western culture is evident among young men. Paradoxically, many women - freed by feminism, have actually hardened. I am old enough to remember the argument by American feminists in the late 1960s, early 1970s, that feminism would"soften" society - allegedly for the better. But watch the local news or read online news, or speak to those who work with juvenile justice, the criminal and custody courts, Child welfare agencies or substance abuse treatment centers and they will tell you that many women are now acting like the stereotypical irresponsible male of past generations. Whatever stigma or motivating force that kept women domesticated for the good of the family unit and society has been lifted. The effect on children is evident. In the past ,the father may have stayed out after work carousing, been in and out of work - unable to adequately support the family, or even absent, but the mother was typically there to be a stabilizing force for the child. Nowadays, many children have neither a stable mother or father. That is why many children are being raised by extended family members, like grandparents.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/rele.../cb11-117.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2888319/
More Children Raised by Relatives and Family Friends, Report Finds - The Annie E. Casey Foundation
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