athena

Efend, in the What Matters most to you? thread, said "personal freedom". The more I thought about that, the more thoughts came to mind. What is personal freedom? What prevents us from having personal freedom?

Rosicrucian, said "mental fitness" is important, and I have been the deep corners of hell. That place we all must go for a sense of meaning, but should never go without the help of the gods, because of the likelihood of getting lost. That is the likelihood of depression or worse mental disorders. For sure such a state of mind can be a serious loss of freedom.

What other interesting things might we say of personal freedom? What if one's whole country is suffering paranoid schizophrenia? What if everyone must carry ID, and is tracked through school, banking, medical records and public transportation? Compared to living under dictator in a country lacking the technology to track and police the people.

HadleyH

I don't mind all that, if it means i'm protected by being blown up by some nut somewhere.

Personal freedom also means being able to live your life without fears.

So we have to show ID... so what.

Toltec

Carlisle Blues

Personal freedom comes from within. I do not have a problem with being tracked for the most part in my country; I am today. I do not see a salient difference between now and times past other than more freedom of information.

Also the upside to a tracking system, so to speak, is that prior to moving to a particular section of town or even across country I can find out various statistics of the crime rate, types of crimes and more importantly if there are any child molesters living in the neighborhood and who they are and what crimes they have been charged with.

Heinrich

Fear ..and the incapability of handling 'risks' drives too many countries nuts nowadays .. to protect our 'Freedom ' were giving up more than any terrorist could ever take away from us . My country is going that way very rapidly Athena and its scary .. Not even 10 years ago one might have called it a little individualists paradise ..and it changed into a very big brother state in a wink of an eye .
If i leave for shopping at a supermarket and get stopped underway for looking 'suspicious'(??) and cant produce a ID , i get arrested and get a fine ..but instead of offering security its turned into into a mass control thing wich conveniently fills our gouvernments treasure box along the way .So far the Free world lol
Problem is the masses are obviously to dumb to even realize what is happening and are willing to let it happen 'for the greater good '. . I travelled a lot and seen and experienced quite some different countries in the world . My last trip was to a country many people consider very scary (China) . A controlled country in a very different way as at home , and for very different reasons . Went there not knowing what to expect at all . And found it was everything I didnt expect .
How very different the actual daily life was compared to image painted through media at home it made my eyes pop wide open . Enough to seriously question the intentions why my home country is going the direction they are going now . Feels like getting raped and having to say 'thank you' for it ! (And having to pay the bill for all that 'service' too , have a nice day )

crossroadclarence

Know what you mean, Henk. Living in Asia has sure opened my eyes.

(and for 10 kilos of aged Gouda, I'll show you how to do it too)

Heinrich

Lets make a deal for 10kg of kopi luang coffee lol

Solidaire

There was a similar discussion, about a month ago, concerning the biometric ID cards for safety reasons.

http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=11898&page=4


Not wanting to repeat myself, I will just copy my views on the subject here:

The point should be to make people not want to get one. Else, the game will be lost.

How has the world become such a frightening place that we need to live in our protected fortresses?
Has it really, or are some people cultivating and investing on that fear to get more and more control over our lives? To herd us like cattle? To ensure obedience and conformity?
And can someone trust the guys holding the power over him? Can someone trust his government to always be angelic and with good intents?
Who will question the keepers, when they have all the power over you?

If the people are lulled by the technological convenience the chip provides, tempted by the discrimination against those that don't carry it, or terrorised into accepting its necessity, I fear democracy will become a memory of the past on short notice.

We have enough restrictions, policing and anti-terrorism laws as it is. The chip would be a step towards the wrong direction. We should tear down walls, not build new ones.

You want less crime? Battle poverty and social imbalances.
You want less terrorism? Do not treat nations like pariahs and stop invading their countries.
You want less immigration? Help poorer countries get on their feet and forbid multi-national corporations from robbing them blind and bankers from indebting them to submission.


PS: No measure, however technologically advanced, brutal or resourceful, no walls, no restrictions, can keep out indefinitely those that really want to get in. They will always find a way, sooner or later, to bypass security and the vicious circle of fear, violence and oppression will continue.
Chips could be forged, just as easily as ID cards. And that would be even more dangerous.

Only by depriving someone of his motivation could we truly prevent him from harming our societies, one way or the other.

crossroadclarence

Can't get it here in Borneo....would have to go to Jakarta. Will do if the Gouda is really old and sent by UPS...that way we both break even on the costs.

(I doubt either of us has a 'uncle' in Customs, so.....never mind....I get aged [but not really hard] Gouda here anyway...really.)

Solidaire

How very eloquent, Toltec!