Democracy = Rule of the fools - Page 2 - Historum

**Charlie Bravo** · December 21st, 2010, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toltec

The basic flaw with this is best summed up by Bertrand Russell when he said why is it the stupidest people who believe they are the most intelligent. This is indeed a recipe to hand power to stupid people who think they are intelligent, not actual intelligent people. It's based on a complete misunderstanding of the primary goal of democracy and the history and politics behind it. Anyone who believes this notion completely rules themselves out from being able to vote by the rules of this notion, where they must understand politics and philosophy to be allowed to vote.

Ever hear of the Dunning-Kruger Effect?

philosopher · December 21st, 2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewModelSoldier

I'm sorry if I'm going on a tangent but it really does fire me up, this sort of drivel, it just seems like half-thinking. You don't like how your government works? ******* change it then. In democracies, politicans are ultimately accountable to the people. In monarchies/aristocracies, there is so little accountability. You have a vote, you have a voice, you have the chance to demonstrate, to reform bloodlessly. To force serious change in the dictatorial systems, you have to have a revolution.

+1 for that

Though a democracy sort of requires a high level of education and literacy.
And throwing away the philosophy, history, psychology and only focusing on mathematics and physics creates robots without understanding for their surroundings. Surely, everything needs to be in some sort of system, but it doesn't need to be a mathematical system.

**NewModelSoldier** · December 21st, 2010, 12:45 PM

Yes it does, which are available in a free and democratic society.

Sorry did I say that we should only have math/physics? I don't know if I may have mentioned it, or was it something you had said I couldn't quite see in your OP.

**Carlisle Blues** · December 21st, 2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philosopher

Having stupid emotion-filled alcohol and drug loving hippie-youth or old senile men and women from the nursing homes voting is hazardous to the Democracy!

If you are suggesting that they should not have the right to vote then it would not be a democracy.

**diddyriddick** · December 21st, 2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewModelSoldier

I don't know how at all establishing an aristocracy or an absolute monarchy would solve any of these problems. Sure, people might be making some poor choices when it comes to their political system, but surely what must be better is to try to reinvigorate the people into caring about their political system more, rather then installing some sort of archaic nightmare.

I find it odd and moderately disturbing that there is an undercurrent of people conceiving that monarchy might be a good idea. The logic seems to be "Well, people are dumb, and politicians lie so instead of fighting for change, lets just throw in the towel and let autocrats do as they will to us! It's a perfect system!"

I mean, we're on a history forum, right? Surely history would be something of a passion for us. How on earth can you look at the course of history and decide that ultimately monarchies are great things? Tired of nepotism and mutual back-slapping in democratic politics? Monarchy literally runs on such a system, promoting brothers (by the way, do you think womens position in society will go up or down in a monarchical system?), cousins, friends, whomever they please. And you have literally no say in it.

I'm sorry if I'm going on a tangent but it really does fire me up, this sort of drivel, it just seems like half-thinking. You don't like how your government works? ******* change it then. In democracies, politicans are ultimately accountable to the people. In monarchies/aristocracies, there is so little accountability. You have a vote, you have a voice, you have the chance to demonstrate, to reform bloodlessly. To force serious change in the dictatorial systems, you have to have a revolution.

I'm not saying that the system is perfect, I'm not saying its the pinnacle of human thought and ideals, but it is so much better then going back, seriously. Encourage reform and change within democracy, thats whats needed, continous effort, its a beautiful but fragile thing it needs work. Monarchy is putting all the power behind a very very few. Why on earth should we expect them to really look out for us, why on earth would they care? They didn't care, as we have centuries and centuries of examples.

For one King or Queen that was great, there were hundreds more that were incompetent, or just plain insane (King George III anybody?). It certainly doesn't guarentee a smooth transition of power, as the countless wars for succession and usurpation show.

I know its frustrating, but handing even more power to the elite and aristocratic elements in our society is not the answer to our woes.

Bravo!

philosopher · December 21st, 2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewModelSoldier

Sorry did I say that we should only have math/physics? I don't know if I may have mentioned it, or was it something you had said I couldn't quite see in your OP.

No, no, you didn't say it at all, it was just me who were sitting in my own thoughts

HadleyH · December 21st, 2010, 12:57 PM

The big problem with Democracy is that in some instances the electorate don't have enough brains to put the right people into power.

Hitler being voted into Parliament anybody????

Helloooooo

**bartieboy** · December 21st, 2010, 12:59 PM

i think that the american system of democracy and republic is a complete failure...
but lets not be to negative, im pretty satisfied with my goverment
they may not always make the right decissions but they know that if they **** up people wont vote for them.
the problem is however that in a country of 17 million i feel like my vote doesnt matter at ALL.
so why not make somthing of a council of people who have been in the business life for a long time or have proven themselves to make the right decissions for the economy and the country.
but then again thats just about what our goverment today is

PraiseGod_Barebones · December 21st, 2010, 01:00 PM

One the worst things about democracy, or at least modern democracy is the wish to spread it. The superiority of democratic nations over non democratic nations as if presidential/parliamentary democracy is the very zenith of governance and man will never improve on that is sublime in it's naivety. Look at China, their economy slowed last year...to 10.3%, 10.3%, would China's growth be so large if it was a democracy, not a chance. Fair enough it's authoritarian but then again most attempts at democracy fail, the presidential system truly is 'America's most dangerous export'. Democracy is all well and good for some places but the idea that the whole world would be fine and dandy if they all turned to democracy is a crock. Then you get people who think that 'People hate us because we're free', like pluralism is the reason that western democracy gets attacked and not foreign policy.

I have serious problems with democracy as it is but the idea of selling it to places that aren't ready for it, time and time again is madness. Look at Iran and Saudi Arabia, if a democracy existed in Saudi Arabia then the government would make the current rulers look like Betty Freidan fans and as for Iran, Ahmadinejad is nothing compared to some of the people that you risk having in power there if they got to chose fairly.

**Rasta** · December 21st, 2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadleyH

The big problem with Democracy is that in some instances the electorate don't have enough brains to put the right people into power.

Hitler being voted into Parliament anybody????

Helloooooo

The problem of course comes to qualifying the "right people". Apparently people differ in opinion on what constitutes "right".