That demon, male desire - Page 4 - Historum

**Fireatwill** · July 24th, 2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna James

1. Do I see an upside-down Jung behind your shoulder?
2. So, males run away form their anima, is that what you are saying?
3. Well, we are talking here about desire, not about gender identity per se.
4. it's a religious issue followed by male oriented fundamentalist religions. The Fundamental Christianity is male oriented, highly controlling, projecting the Christian sexuality model that sex is to be done for obtaining kids, not for pleasure; hence the million restrictions on sexual techniques and positions in the Middle Ages enforced by Catholisism and even now in very conservative Christian religious denominations.

5. No, it wasn't in passing, it's the core of the problem - the power drive is self-destructive because it grows with power, so a person on a power spree is never satisfied with power, he/she tries to engulf more and more and have stronger and stronger control; sooner or later everything is destroyed, because control is not creative, but stagnative.

The problem with Jung is that he speaks of the anima as an inner woman, almost another inner personality whom he actually communicated with using autowriting... His prejeduice is that men and women are distinctly different, while my take is more in tune with modern science. The biological differences between men and women are very little... Masculine and feminine traits as we know them are products of culture and history, not biologically presets.

Abortion is one issue that I'm not really familiar with, for me its a matter of common sense but I do know its a big deal in US... I never looked at it as misogynistic but if its perceived by feminists as such, I would go along... And also my own male neurosis makes me uncomfortable to talk about something as feminine as abortion, its like talking to a woman about her periods.

But now to the interesting point about power drive. the reason I'm hesitant to get into a discussion about it is my uncertainty, who's ideas or philosophy you're using as a basis for your argument that power drive is self-destructive, is it a fully developed idea that you have or something intuitive... I say that because I make no effort to hide my Nietzsche fanboyism and his main philosophy is based on a sort of primordial power drive called 'will to power', this is not some Nazi slogan, its according to Nietzsche the very force behind life itself. Maybe power drive should be discussed in a separate thread.

The topic question regarding desire, frankly speaking I don't even know what desire means other than its literal common usage.

**Anna James** · July 24th, 2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireatwill

1. The problem with Jung is that he speaks of the anima as an inner woman, almost another inner personality whom he actually communicated with using autowriting... His prejeduice is that men and women are distinctly different, while my take is more in tune with modern science. The biological differences between men and women are very little... Masculine and feminine traits as we know them are products of culture and history, not biologically presets.
2. Abortion is one issue that I'm not really familiar with, for me its a matter of common sense but I do know its a big deal in US... I never looked at it as misogynistic but if its perceived by feminists as such, I would go along... And also my own male neurosis makes me uncomfortable to talk about something as feminine as abortion, its like talking to a woman about her periods.
3. But now to the interesting point about power drive. the reason I'm hesitant to get into a discussion about it is my uncertainty, who's ideas or philosophy you're using as a basis for your argument that power drive is self-destructive, is it a fully developed idea that you have or something intuitive... I say that because I make no effort to hide my Nietzsche fanboyism and his main philosophy is based on a sort of primordial power drive called 'will to power', this is not some Nazi slogan, its according to Nietzsche the very force behind life itself. Maybe power drive should be discussed in a separate thread.
4. The topic question regarding desire, frankly speaking I don't even know what desire means other than its literal common usage.

1. Well, I go with the outline - in every woman's psyche there is a male part and vice versa.
2. I have no idea how the feminists look at it, I was never read anything written be a feminist writer. My personal view is that abortion is plain stupid, with the variety of contraceptions; I'm a Bulgarian, btw, and in Bulgaria, that is largely a atheistic country, abortion was never a problem, but I heard that they use only topical anastesia, so.... It's a big thing in the US, and with my outside view I see it as a variation of the male controlling apparatus, that is so ingraved in Christianity, not due to Jesus himself, but to Paul.

3. The idea is mine, not taken directly, but influenced by the Russian Anarchist philosophy, with a pinch of Freud.
4. Desire - sex, uncontrollable and wild, not exactly accepted and permitted to yourself - this is how I see the OP; male desire, with all it's repercussions.

**Fireatwill** · July 25th, 2011, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anna James

1. Well, I go with the outline - in every woman's psyche there is a male part and vice versa.
2. I have no idea how the feminists look at it, I was never read anything written be a feminist writer. My personal view is that abortion is plain stupid, with the variety of contraceptions; I'm a Bulgarian, btw, and in Bulgaria, that is largely a atheistic country, abortion was never a problem, but I heard that they use only topical anastesia, so.... It's a big thing in the US, and with my outside view I see it as a variation of the male controlling apparatus, that is so ingraved in Christianity, not due to Jesus himself, but to Paul.

3. The idea is mine, not taken directly, but influenced by the Russian Anarchist philosophy, with a pinch of Freud.
4. Desire - sex, uncontrollable and wild, not exactly accepted and permitted to yourself - this is how I see the OP; male desire, with all it's repercussions.

I have never read Freud, I have decided to stick with Jung even though I don't take all of what he say seriously. What I like about Jungian psychology is its debt to mythology, philosophy and literature... Freud misread Oedipus Rex. I also think a lot of Freud's ideas were influenced by his Ressentiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ressentiment
.

Maybe you could start a thread at your own convenience about the topic of power drive, it would be very interesting for me, so I could test my own ideas against a differing opinion.

**Star** · July 25th, 2011, 07:59 AM

In reply to the OP: Male sexuality needs to be highly varied in its forms...assists more diversity of the gene pool.

In the same respect, I don't look down on any form of male sexuality (rape is more of a power thing, but maybe I'm wrong). If men were too tired or had headaches some of us would be a strayin.'

The same for female sexuality - there is good reason for women to have heightened libido as they near the last decade of ovulation (sorry I know some men don't like to talk about the female repproductive cycle). It's another chance for baby makin' that may have gone by the wayside.

**Anna James** · July 25th, 2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireatwill

1. I have never read Freud, I have decided to stick with Jung even though I don't take all of what he say seriously. What I like about Jungian psychology is its debt to mythology, philosophy and literature... Freud misread Oedipus Rex. I also think a lot of Freud's ideas were influenced by his Ressentiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
2. Maybe you could start a thread at your own convenience about the topic of power drive, it would be very interesting for me, so I could test my own ideas against a differing opinion.

1. Well, I don't take Freud in everything - I agree with the overkill with the Oedipus complex, and I think there is a general overkill of the sexual drive. I like his studies on religion though. I took his view that the "instinct of Eros" /survival instinct/ is counterbalanced by the "instinct of Tanatos", which is self-destructive, and the power drive is a part of it.
2. OK, when I do so I will send you a link of the thread in a PM.

Rhysbans · July 26th, 2011, 06:22 PM

I'd spank Couric too