Are obedience, lawfulness and discipline, always a merit? - Page 4 - Historum

sylla1 · October 14th, 2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vera

That is correct, they may not be enthusiastic about it if it clashes with their own values.

For example, emotionally I consider him a bloody short-sighted idiot to do what he did, but I cannot but feel respect for his decision to stand up for what he believed in, even at a terrible price to himself. The two are not connected.

You're not talking about Herr von Stauffenberg, right?

**vera** · October 14th, 2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylla1

You're not talking about Herr von Stauffenberg, right?

lol, no. About Va'anunu, naturally. Sorry for not being more specific.

**Solidaire** · October 14th, 2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vera

Solidaire, aside from the examples you bring - if you look carefully, almost every hero of almost any book, story or even history has been DISobedient, gone against authorities and expectations, even at the risk of all that he held dear. As much as people praise these qualities they worship those who break the rules.

SELF-discipline, in my opinion, has nothing to do with obedience and lawfulness. And it is THIS that trait which I would say is important, not obedience.

I absolutely agree, of course. Self discipline is one of the most important human virtues. Obedience is just a social convention, sometimes needed, sometimes harmful. By the way, I voted the third option.

However, I wonder how we would all perform if submitted to situations similar to the Milgram experiment. How many of us, theoretically in agreement about the need to strictly follow our conscience from a point onward, would succumb under the pressure of authority. I guess this is a difficult question to answer without having similar experiences.