Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 13th, 2012, 11:13 AM   #41
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: San Diego
Posts: 3,309

Women are in competition with other women to be appealing and fashionable.

Women do not hate other women who are more beautiful, any more than men hate other men who are more successful. They may envy them. But according to studies, they still tend to hire them more often, pay them more, and seek to socialize with them.

Women critique other women, but it seldom tends to focus on their actual beauty, but more often on their style, or lack thereof.

In particular... women are the arbiters of what they, as a group, consider acceptable usage of 'beauty' or sexuality in the public sphere.
A woman dressed provocatively in a business environment, for example, will be cut down by her fellow women as using an unfair advantage to draw attention to herself.

Because Beautiful women DO get more breaks and attention... they often learn to USE that power, even to rely on it, rather than actual competence, personality, or persuasion.

It is THIS behavior on the part of beautiful women that other women disdain and punish... because it is a manipulative use of beauty or sexuality to get what they want out of men.

An analogy among males might be when a man who is tall and physically imposing acts in a manner to intimidate women in an inappropriate way...
And it is men who police this conduct in men, just as women police the conduct of other women.

Women do not hate women over their beauty, but over the manner in which some women USE their beauty to manipulate men.
sculptingman is offline  
Remove Ads
Old April 13th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #42

Black Dog's Avatar
Idiot of the year 2013
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: Damned England
Posts: 9,992
Blog Entries: 2

There's probably some truth in that, Sculptingman. I've heard more than a few women say that they couldn't care less what MEN think about their beauty, they're more interested in what other women think. I've also heard them say that they dress up to impress other women, not men. And no, they didn't "bat for the other side"

This is a power game most men don't even see, much less know the rules of.

I remember watching two women having what, in male terms, would be called a showdown. One, a teacher, was very much a local woman with a local accent. The other, a teaching assistant, was not local and had your standard middle class accent, regarded by some as "posh".

On the subject of how to teach the children how to pronounce "Yorkshire", the teaching assistant said "do we teach them to say "Yorksher" or "Yorksheer?". (The former way is the correct way, the latter the "posh" way). The teacher smiled back at her, with a glint in her eye, and said "Well, we are in "Yorksher", so they should say "Yorksher".

I had a sudden insight: what was happening here was that the "posh" teaching assisant was saying "I may be a lowly teaching assistant, but I'm posher than you", to which the Teacher was saying "I may not be as posh as you, but I'm the damned teacher"

Far to complex a game for me to play
Black Dog is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 11:41 AM   #43
Suspended indefinitely
¤ Member of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Sep 2011
From: ------------
Posts: 24,135
Blog Entries: 9

Sorry but I cannot agree that all women are manipulators, there are an equal amount of men who manipulate. And people with good looks are no less manipulative than people who are plain or ugly. Who says beauty means someone is devious? That is BS!
Brisieis is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #44

kbear's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,431

i don't hate beautiful women but i really dislike the arrogant, conceited ones. it's so sad how much plastic surgery is being done for women to become more beautiful. teen-agers are getting boob jobs, nose jobs etc...and starving themselves to be a size 2. i do not think the woman this thread was about is beautiful. i'd say she's pretty but she's no angelina jolie...
my BF prefers women who don't look like a toothpick, with fake boobs etc...thank goodness
kbear is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 12:03 PM   #45
Suspended indefinitely
¤ Member of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Sep 2011
From: ------------
Posts: 24,135
Blog Entries: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbear View Post
i don't hate beautiful women but i really dislike the arrogant, conceited ones. it's so sad how much plastic surgery is being done for women to become more beautiful. teen-agers are getting boob jobs, nose jobs etc...and starving themselves to be a size 2. i do not think the woman this thread was about is beautiful. i'd say she's pretty but she's no angelina jolie...
my BF prefers women who don't look like a toothpick, with fake boobs etc...thank goodness
Good points, and the women are only having surgery because they feel like men will love them more if they look plastic.

Let's not forget the role of men in all of this.
Brisieis is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #46

Black Dog's Avatar
Idiot of the year 2013
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: Damned England
Posts: 9,992
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Good points, and the women are only having surgery because they feel like men will love them more if they look plastic.
Well, it seems that I'm not the average man, but I don't like these plasticy women at all. There's hordes of them where I live, and it's getting hard to tell one from another

I prefer a woman to look natural, and plastic surgery never, ever achieves that.

What are they going to look like, aged 80? Worn with age, wrinkled and grey, with two huge footballs sticking out proudly from their cardigan, and lips like they've just done 15 rounds with Mike Tyson ?

It's funny how all the most beautiful women were natural looking. And there's more to beauty than good looks, anyhow.

I've worked as a glamour and portrait photographer. (The glamour was not modern soft porn). I soon realised that photogenic and beautiful were two very different things, and women could be one but not necessarily the other and yet both were just as attractive. Cameras are actually very fussy about who they like
Black Dog is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #47

Star's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: USA
Posts: 3,701

Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptingman View Post
Women are in competition with other women to be appealing and fashionable.

Women do not hate other women who are more beautiful, any more than men hate other men who are more successful. They may envy them. But according to studies, they still tend to hire them more often, pay them more, and seek to socialize with them.

Women critique other women, but it seldom tends to focus on their actual beauty, but more often on their style, or lack thereof.

In particular... women are the arbiters of what they, as a group, consider acceptable usage of 'beauty' or sexuality in the public sphere.
A woman dressed provocatively in a business environment, for example, will be cut down by her fellow women as using an unfair advantage to draw attention to herself.

Because Beautiful women DO get more breaks and attention... they often learn to USE that power, even to rely on it, rather than actual competence, personality, or persuasion.

It is THIS behavior on the part of beautiful women that other women disdain and punish... because it is a manipulative use of beauty or sexuality to get what they want out of men.

An analogy among males might be when a man who is tall and physically imposing acts in a manner to intimidate women in an inappropriate way...
And it is men who police this conduct in men, just as women police the conduct of other women.

Women do not hate women over their beauty, but over the manner in which some women USE their beauty to manipulate men.
Well said, sculptingman. Don't forget to add in a little old fashioned jealousy, and there you go. Hate? Strong emotion, envy, jealousy, disdain...yes. People watch too much TV, and get crazy ideas of 'what all women think' based on a few nutjobs from wherever the Kardashians are from. I don't hate beautiful women, I know several (one was a runner up for Miss Colorado), and I adore her.
Star is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 12:58 PM   #48

General Michael Collins's Avatar
Resident Fenian
¤ Member of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Éire
Posts: 6,502

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
Sorry but I cannot agree that all women are manipulators, there are an equal amount of men who manipulate. And people with good looks are no less manipulative than people who are plain or ugly. Who says beauty means someone is devious? That is BS!

"For the power of beauty will sooner transform honesty from what it is to a bawd than the force of honesty can translate beauty into his likeness."
General Michael Collins is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #49
Suspended indefinitely
¤ Member of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Sep 2011
From: ------------
Posts: 24,135
Blog Entries: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Michael Collins View Post

"For the power of beauty will sooner transform honesty from what it is to a bawd than the force of honesty can translate beauty into his likeness."
"A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity." - Robert A Heinlein.
Brisieis is offline  
Old April 13th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #50

kbear's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,431

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
Well, it seems that I'm not the average man, but I don't like these plasticy women at all. There's hordes of them where I live, and it's getting hard to tell one from another

I prefer a woman to look natural, and plastic surgery never, ever achieves that.

What are they going to look like, aged 80? Worn with age, wrinkled and grey, with two huge footballs sticking out proudly from their cardigan, and lips like they've just done 15 rounds with Mike Tyson ?

It's funny how all the most beautiful women were natural looking. And there's more to beauty than good looks, anyhow.

I've worked as a glamour and portrait photographer. (The glamour was not modern soft porn). I soon realised that photogenic and beautiful were two very different things, and women could be one but not necessarily the other and yet both were just as attractive. Cameras are actually very fussy about who they like
i had a patient that died recently at 76--she had a boob job and it looked really strange--boobs sagging down to her lap with these big round balls in the end. i guess she could have used them as a weapon
kbear is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
beautiful, hate, women



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Women of the '45 Chookie European History 3 September 29th, 2010 01:15 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.