Is Life a Supernatural Phenomenon? - Historum

Piscator · May 13th, 2012, 06:04 AM

Is life a supernatural phenomenom?

"Life" is defined in my Webster's as:
Life: 1 a the quality that distinguishes a vital and funcional being from a dead body 1 b a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings

"Supernatural" is defined as: 1 a of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe

Life is invisible, no one has ever seen it or measured it. Is it a supernatural phenomenom?

**Naomasa298** · May 13th, 2012, 06:24 AM

How is it invisible? We can observe and measure when something is alive and when it is not. What makes you say we cannot?

Piscator · May 13th, 2012, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naomasa298

How is it invisible? We can observe and measure when something is alive and when it is not. What makes you say we cannot?

Good question. I mean that we aren't able to see or measure the actual life itself. Please see definition 1b in my post above. We can see and measure the effects that life has on inanimate material, but we can't see or measure the life itself.

For instance. For a good part of the planet's history, there appeared to be no life on earth, either because it was just too hostile for life to operate, or because life was absent. Then, life started operating, either because the earth turned friendly enough, or because it was introduced. This indicates, to me, that there is an entity called "life", which can be absent or present.

**Earl_of_Rochester** · May 13th, 2012, 06:40 AM

You can measure live energy in cells, photosynthesis and the division of chromosomes etc, and it's all too clear that a rock is a non living entity. So far as we can tell it has no physical attributes comparable to a living thing.

I think you're confused with the semantics.

However, if you're referring to the origins of life, then you may have a point. How life first sparked from a chemical reaction to a self organised process is certainly a scientific miracle. I don't think I'd go as far as to say it involved supernatural means though.

Piscator · May 13th, 2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl_of_Rochester

You can measure live energy in cells, photosynthesis and the division of chromosomes etc, and it's all to clear that a rock is a non living entity. So far as we can tell it has no physical attributes comparable to a living thing.

I think you're confused with the semantics.

That's possible, I'm trying to understand this myself. The dictionary calls life a force or a "quality".

I know that the effects of life on matter can be easily seen and measured, and it is sometimes dramatic. The baby is breathing, therefore it is alive. The old man is not breathing anymore, therefore the old man is dead. But is there a unique "force" that is operating? It seems so to me.

Plus, people have tried to create life or give life to inanimate matter. They have not been successful.

MinoanGoddess · May 13th, 2012, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl_of_Rochester

You can measure live energy in cells, photosynthesis and the division of chromosomes etc, and it's all too clear that a rock is a non living entity. So far as we can tell it has no physical attributes comparable to a living thing.

I think you're confused with the semantics.

However, if you're referring to the origins of life, then you may have a point. How life first sparked from a chemical reaction to a self organised process is certainly a scientific miracle. I don't think I'd go as far as to say it involved supernatural means though.

Yes you are right on this one..with all semantics, principles, concepts, hypothesis, ancient beliefs, etc..he clearly does not understand the concept that even the earth is a living energy as it is a creator (as she's called mother Gaia) is formed of the same particles/elements as everything around it

Piscator · May 13th, 2012, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl_of_Rochester

However, if you're referring to the origins of life, then you may have a point. How life first sparked from a cemical reaction to a self organised process is certainly a scientific miracle. I don't think I'd go as far as to say it involved supernatural means though.

I'm referring to both the origins of life, and the ongoing existence of life. And yes, you have a good point. What was the force that "sparked" the beginning of life on this planet. I tend to view life as some type of "force" for lack of a better word.

Piscator · May 13th, 2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinoanGoddess

Yes you are right on this one..with all semantics, principles, concepts, hypothesis, ancient beliefs, etc..he clearly does not understand the concept that even the earth is a living energy as it is a creator (as she's called mother Gaia) is formed of the same particles/elements as everything around it

I'm not religious myself, and I don't want to get into religious concepts. I am researching whether life is some sort of actual force or energy that we have not been able to observe and measure.

**Earl_of_Rochester** · May 13th, 2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piscator

That's possible, I'm trying to understand this myself. The dictionary calls life a force or a "quality".

I know that the effects of life on matter can be easily seen and measured, and it is sometimes dramatic. The baby is breathing, therefore it is alive. The old man is not breathing anymore, therefore the old man is dead. But is there a unique "force" that is operating? It seems so to me.

Plus, people have tried to create life or give life to inanimate matter. They have not been successful.

I don't think there's a universal agreement to what life actually is at the fundamental level. Whether you speak to a philosopher, biologist or lawyer you'll probably get a different answer. Some might even argue a case for artificial intelligence.

If there's a unique force it's probably the natural energy of the universe. All natural elements are created from stars, carbon/oxygen etc and this is spread out around the universe via supernova explosions. These elements then combine to form minerals and stuff in the oceans of distant planets. Next thing you know Mr Amoeba gets it on with Mrs Amoeba and Bob's your zygote's sister.

This may be of interest:

BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - In Our Time, The Origins of Life

Quote:

Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss the emergence of the world’s first organic matter nearly four billion years ago. Scientists have named 1.5 million species of living organism on the land, in the skies and in the oceans of planet Earth and a new one is classified every day. Estimates of how many species remain to be discovered vary wildly, but science accepts one categorical point – all living matter on our planet, from the nematode to the elephant, from the bacterium to the blue whale, is derived from a single common ancestor.

What was that ancestor? Did it really emerge from a ‘primordial soup’? And what, in the explanation of evolutionary science, provided the catalyst to start turning the cycle of life?
With Richard Dawkins, Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University; Richard Corfield, Visiting Senior Lecturer at the Centre for Earth, Planetary, Space and Astronomical Research at the Open University; Linda Partridge, Biology and Biotechnology Research Council Professor at University College London.

You can dl as a podcast here:

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/...0923-0900a.mp3

MinoanGoddess · May 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piscator

That's possible, I'm trying to understand this myself. The dictionary calls life a force or a "quality".

I know that the effects of life on matter can be easily seen and measured, and it is sometimes dramatic. The baby is breathing, therefore it is alive. The old man is not breathing anymore, therefore the old man is dead. But is there a unique "force" that is operating? It seems so to me.

Plus, people have tried to create life or give life to inanimate matter. They have not been successful.

You can't interpret a dictionary literally without any thoughts behind it and see everything in black and white. Let's take for example the meaning of
BREAD= 1. A staple food made from flour or meal mixed with other dry and liquid ingredients, usually combined with a leavening agent, and kneaded, shaped into loaves, and baked.Means of support; livelihood: earn one's bread.
b. Slang Money.
2. Food in general, regarded as necessary for sustaining life

Bread can have so many different meanings. And behind it there are many ways/recipes of making a bread using different grains adding walnuts, adding ham and cheese, there is more to a bread than being called a loaf..It is a means of living and sustaining life so we do not go hungry..so look beyond a simple meaning of a word in black and white.

Back to your theory..after death there are poeple who do not believe in the after life and the soul in this forum. I believe as the ancient Greeks that even though the body is lifeless and not animated it has a soul and energy that enters another dimension. For you to understand you must look beyond the world of the 5 senses. There is also a belief of 7 dimensions, as the world was created in 7 days, there are also 7 days in the week, 7 archangels etc. I can go on and on with this. It is up to each individual to grasp any concept and meaning of a single word in a dictionary depending on ones own beliefs, not simply base a definition of a word and say that is the way it is, that is the way of the world because a word cannot be taken literally as it has many meanings and thoughts, principles behind it.