antonina

Quote:

Originally Posted by arras Russia does not pose as champion of freedom and does not sent soldiers, bomb, burn and kill to impose freedom on other people.US does.

Some time ago your admonished me for ignoring the casualties of the war in Iraq. Like I said, I'm not happy about our soldiers presence there, so I decided to take your tip and explore. Here are the results:

IRAQ

An independent UK/US group, the IBC project shows a minimum of 99,004 and a maximum of 108,076 as of December 2, 2010.

Iraq Body Count project

Iraq_Body_Count_project

103,536 — 113,125 civilian deaths as a result of the conflict.

WHO stated about 150,000 in 2008.

Hard to say who to believe, so I'll top up the figure. Let's say: Total: 120,000


CHECHNYA

A.Cherkasov from the Memorial estimated the number of civilians killed in the 1st war at 50,000, and 25,000 in the 2nd war., together 75,000.

The

Society for Threatened Peoples

Society_for_Threatened_Peoples

estimated the civilians casualties of the first war at 80,000 and the second war at 50,000. Together 130,000

Accurate figures have been very hard to come by, especially during the second war, during which access for journalists and independent researchers was tightly restricted.
So let's say: Total: 100,000

__________________________________________________ _______________


I'm no wizard with figures, but have tried to be accurate (correct me if I made some major mistake)

It looks like the numbers are comparable. About one hundred civilian casualties in both nations. Horryfying figures.

Now let's place this against the respective population of each country.

IRAQ

Civilian casualties: 120,000

Population: 30,399,572 (2011 census) About 30 million.


CHECHNYA

Civilian casualties: 100,000

Population: 1,269,095 (2010 census) About 1 million.
__________________________________________________ ________

Looking at these figures, a question inevitably comes to mind, what sort of war has been waged in Chechnya by the Russian Federation to warrant such colossal losses.

You can find the answer if you wish, even though few Russian journalists have dared ask the question and few foreign ones have bothered to do so.

I needn't search for the answer - I know it.

General Winter

I wonder,what does Russia have to do here? Perhaps Russian affairs are not better,so what?Does it make you feel better?The argument a la "Fool youself!" shows the absence of serious arguments.We are talking about the USA as a model capitalist state.

You again pretend not to notice new given facts :


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/wo...3738.html?_r=1


So US prison population in total in 2007 was 2,418,352. Compare with "terrible Gulag" ; ГУЛаг — Википеди� :

in the midst of the great purge in 1937 - 1,196,369; in 1938 - 1,881,570. Before the great purge in 1934 - 510,307 !

It;s only facts without any comments.Having a little of brain everyone can evaluate them.

Patton

Of course! We've a saying over here, "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." In other words, avoid criticizing when you have the same faults. I'm not even sure the culmination of what you are trying to say as you've provided absolutely no context (Though I've my suspicions). Any fool can copy and paste text from a website, it takes a semi-intelligent fool to provide some meaningful context or commentary to those numbers. You've provided basically nothing. What little you have provided seems to border on a Khrushchev era level of propaganda.



Why are you omitting those kulaks executed or starved to death from your total? Is it because you can't imprison someone who is dead? How about you research those number and add them to your total.

PubliusBassus

First of all, again, arrest is not the same as conviction. Most people who are arrested (and then released) are not even subsequently charged with a crime, much less convicted.

Regarding incarceration, most prisoners in the US are there for drug-related offenses. Some states have a "3 strike rule," meaning the third drug conviction automatically leads to a lengthy prison term, regardless of the nature of the offense. I will agree that the penal system needs reform, but to argue that the US is somehow less free because it has a relatively high number of people who have been justly convicted of criminal acts is a weak argument indeed.

General Winter

Because I'm ommiting victims of your great depression : Where did America

Linschoten

What a stupid thread!

General Winter

11-year-old Pennsylvanian is youngest person in world to face life without parole. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/2...ithout-parole/

Jordan Brown is the youngest person known to Amnesty International to be currently at risk of being sentenced to life imprisonment with no parole. However, there are already at least 2,500 people in the US serving life imprisonment without parole for crimes committed when they were under 18.

Amnesty notes that the US is one of only two countries in the world who have refused to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Somalia is the other country.

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