histoman

if you divide a finite number (like energy) by zero (volume) you get an infinite density. that's the big bang singularity you were alluding to. it's an artifact of the general relativity theory, and a quantum theory of gravity would presumably eliminate this singular result.


tell me lucius: how old do you think the earth is?

Lord_Cronus

I recall not long ago, either by use of Hubble or by a ground based observatory, that scientist were able to see objects that were roughly 14 billion light years away. Which if you believe that the universe is 14 billion years old, these are the objects that were created by the big bang.

I have never really believed in the intelligent design theory, but in looking at Lucius' arguments he and I have the same view. It is extremely hard to comprehend something that goes on "forever" much like our universe does. Physics tells us that in order for something to exist, it must be part of a bigger whole. our galaxy was once believed to be the biggest object in the cosmos, but that goes against physics. Then it was discovered that billions of galaxies exist in our universe, and subsequently the universe was deemed as big as it gets. Again, that goes against physics. The belief if that several universes exist within what is now called the 11th dimension. Now after your brain can grasp the size of that remember that everything must be contained in something else. So there is something larger than the 11th dimension.

I don't believe in infinate density, that's just another way of saying you don't know how dense it is. A black hole is a small mass compared to it's relative density. It's density is so great that nothing can escape it's gravity, not even light. My own hypothesis is that these black holes engulf their host galaxy and then collapse under their own gravity creating another galaxy, or they are then either combined with other black holes, such as the one in the Andromeda galaxy that the Milky Way's black hole is destined to colide with, and keep growing until their gravity becomes so great that they push the galaxy out into the cosmos.

In regards to things being beyond our knowledge, common belief is that at the center of a black hole, the Singularity, all of physics breaks down. At this point in time we do not have the proper science to asess what goes on at it's center.

And by the way, gravity IS a theory. You cannot see it, feel it, smell it, taste it or hear it. It is 99.99999999% fact that it exists, but until it can be fully proven it is still a theory.

Lucius

histoman,

I'll answer your question after I figure out how to divide by zero.

histoman

what a surprise!



really?! show me where in physics it says this?

btw, it's only fair to tell you that i studied physics at the grad level.



the discovery of other galaxies came as a surprise. the verification of other dimensions will also come as a surprise, if it ever happens.



you're making a good case for infinite density, cronus. you have me convinced.



sorry to break this to you, einstein, but the evidence shows that galaxies are not only moving away from each other, they are actually accelerating - ie, the rate of recession is speeding up.



yes, but "we do not have the proper science" does NOT necessarily mean it is "beyond our knowledge".



oh really?! do you feel that force on your feet supporting your weight? what do you suppose that is? and if you don't "see" that, just imagine what you would feel if gravity was not there. still not convinced? try picking up a piano. do you feel something? or how about this: go jump off a tall building. do you feel the acceleration pulling you back to earth? what do you suppose that is??? or how about the moon in the sky? what do you suppose keeps that heavenly body orbiting high above the earth?

gravity is a fact. a fact that any schoolboy can tell you he senses.

histoman

you need to divide by zero to tell me how old YOU think the earth is?!

come on lucius: it's a simple question: tell me: how old do you think the earth is?

histoman

do they teach science in southern high skules?

do they have high skules in the south?

Lord_Cronus

I am warning you right here and now to lay off these personal attacks. It is one thing to have a civilized discussion, it is another to insult someone's intelligence.

I will have my sources posted this evening, I have classes until 5 pm.

Lord_Cronus

You can feel the effects of it. You cannot physically feel gravity. When you try to pick something up you feel it's weight, it's weight is caused by gravity, therefore you do not feel gravity. And the acceleration you feel when falling is wind holding you back until you approach terminal velocity. This was proven by an experiment proposed by Galileo and was performed by one of the Apollo missions on the moon. The absence of air (i.e. a vaccuum) provided that there was no acceleration and that all objects reach terminal velocity at the same time. The hammer and feather used in the experiment were droped and landed at the same time.

Belisarius

The Histoman-Lucius debate is confusing me, perhasps you can both help. What has Gravity [Oh no! not again!] and the Big bang got to do with Evolution and Intelligent Design? Reading through Lucius' posts I do not get the impression he is advocating or promoting Intelligent Design, so I'm unclear as to why Histoman is "attacking" him.

histoman

oooh. cronus, you rebel you! what are you going to do? secede from this board?