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Old October 2nd, 2012, 04:05 PM   #1

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New sultan and New Ottoman Empire?


I just red excerpts from speech of Prime Minister of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan, regarding of his reelection as a leading man of his Party.

Erdogan presented his vision of region in period 2012 - 2071(1000 years since victory over Byzantines), in which he even ONE single time hasn't mentioned EU, even as a factor on Balkans that can significantly influence on his plans. Instead, he described Turkey as a leader of islamic world, and as an engine that will unite islamic states under leadership of Turkey. He also critised western democraties which proved disfunctional in combination with religion, while(according to Erdogan) islam proved to be compatible with this form of government. Erdogan sees himself as a new sultan, and is aiming to revive Ottoman tradition, and imperial plans. He also hasn't invited a single christian or western guest to his reelection(except Gerhard Schroeder, his old friend), but there were guests from Arabia, Kazahstan, Hamas, Kyrgistan, Iraq and other exclusively islamic guests.

His actions lately, and active promoting of Ottoman imperial traditions and claims on Balkans as an ottoman territory created opinion is many medias that Erdogan regards himself as a new sultan. His politics and speeches are certainly confirmation for that.

How this assumptions and calls for islamic against christian can be dangerous in region that is traditionally unstable and always under pressure of new war?

Will this be a new dimension in relations in Middle East, and specifically in relations of Turkey with Israel?

Can anyone say few words about this, since I'm not really linked with turkey and its political situation?

Here is a reaction of Die Welt:


Erdogan sees himself as Sultan


"Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was elected on Sunday for the third and last possible time for the leaders of his ruling party. This is the brief message. The detailed should announce the fact that nothing is as it was at the start of Erdogan's early days in power. Turkey today is almost the opposite of the country, which it was then - and Erdogan's tone is the opposite of the spirit of the early days.


At that time, the beginning of the 2000s, membership in the European Union was the great object of departure for the West, the main theme. This time, Erdogan said in his half-hour "coronation speech" the EU is not a single time, the pro-government, that Islamic-oriented media reported proudly of "more than 200 delegates from abroad". But the only one who was not a Muslim country, was former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. He gave himself forth as a fig leaf to cover up that even the EU was not represented. That may be because the outlaws of Turkey from the EU, as long as the Greek part of Cyprus holds the EU presidency.

Celebrated on frenetischsten among all the ambassadors from other countries but was Khaled Mashaal, the leader of the radical, the West regarded as a terrorist organization Hamas militia. Quite in the sense was Erdogan vows "never normalize" Turkey's relations with Israel until the Gaza blockade would not be lifted, and Israel is not for the death of nine Turkish militants apologize entschädige and their families.

What the departure of Turkey to the west is concerned, it Erdogan used in his keynote speech a whole new symbol. The ultimate goal of the long road that would only reach its successor, was "2071," he said. Then that will mark the 1000th time the Battle of Manzikert, the Turks beat the Byzantine Empire and decisively pushed westward by taking possession of Anatolia. "Our model Arp Arslan Sultan", ie the then victorious against the Christian warlord, Erdogan announced to applause from some 30,000 AKP supporters.

The left newspaper "Taraf" headlined: "Turkish-Islamic Manifesto", and that was the crux of the matter: Erdogan's speech was an ideologically-Islamic by interwoven signal to the Muslim world. He stressed that Turkey has shown that Islam can be modern and democratic. The country is thus a model for the entire Islamic world. Like to emphasize that, also the new Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi had graced the convention with his presence. He stated, however, a more nuanced that Turkey was "one of the leaders of the region", said he saw Egypt as well a second leader.

The more marginal Islamic newspaper "Milat" brought with her headline the fervor of Erdogan's supporters most to the point: "world leaders", they headlined over Erdogan - not just in the Islamic world. Erdogan to fit very confident, almost threatening tone towards Russia and China. You would finally give up its support for the Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad, he said, or they would be "punished supporters of the suppression of the story" as.

That Erdogan is the leader of Turkey, and intends to stay for the foreseeable future, because he wanted to leave no doubt. He indicated to want to compete in 2014 presidential election, after the current Constitution does not allow him another term as prime minister.

He would continue to serve the nation, and put a further historical date as long-term goal of his time in power: the year 2023. That would be the 100th Anniversary of the founding of modern Turkey by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Sun Erdogan made it clear, at least in terms of symbols, as he sees himself: as a new Ataturk, who modernized the country, and as the new Sultan, who leads the Turks and Islam victorious westward. "If God wills it, we will build 2023, and you will build in 2071," he said to cheers particularly the younger ones among his listeners.


It's translated online. so if any grammatical errors are there, neglect it.

Last edited by Lucius Vorenus; October 2nd, 2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 02:34 AM   #2

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I wouldn't be surprised.....

The Middle East is the natural and ideal place for Turkey given its cultural, political, historical, and religious ties....and YES the Turkish model is an excellent model blending Islam with Secularism....I believe Turkey in the Middle East is a big player among few big players, while in the EU, they would be a small player among many small players....

With the Arab world stuck in their own mess for long time that gap is tempting for Turks to fill, and the region looks receptive of a more Turkish influence. However, certain level of awareness is there not to have a situation like the late years of Ottoman rule....One column writer in a local newspaper once mentioned of a certain tour made by a number of Turkish inttlects was aimed to gauge the reception of Turkish influence in some Arab countries, the response was in the most positive....but the writer mentiones that some of those intellects have concluded there is a positive reaction to a more "Turkish control" of the region....then the column writer had to go back to the Turkish colleage and clarify that a positive perception doesn't mean a welcome for a "Control".....

In any case, I don't believe speeches has to be taken to the extent of what you said....sometimes its part of a propaganda to support his position among the party or people...A more Turkish influence in the region is logical, But assuming an Ottoman Empire and aggression is an exaggeration in my view...
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 02:46 AM   #3

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If the Turks were really intent on rebuilding the Ottoman empire they would be on the ground now in Syria as we speak.

They are not so this is just wind.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 03:40 AM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Essa View Post
I wouldn't be surprised.....

The Middle East is the natural and ideal place for Turkey given its cultural, political, historical, and religious ties....and YES the Turkish model is an excellent model blending Islam with Secularism....I believe Turkey in the Middle East is a big player among few big players, while in the EU, they would be a small player among many small players....
I couldn't agree more. Especially if we take into account the fact that Turkey is becoming a true giant in the world economic map.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmowerman View Post
If the Turks were really intent on rebuilding the Ottoman empire they would be on the ground now in Syria as we speak.

They are not so this is just wind.
I don't think this is just a wind. Erdogan is speaking the same for some time now, and it's obvious that turkey is trying to establish regular influence in Albania or Bosnia in which islamic traditions are still very, very strong. Even if it is not the case, turning back to EU and West and openly criticise their form of government is something we saw in some totalitary states(Ahmadinajad,, Gadaffi or Saddam). Don't you think?
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 04:10 AM   #5

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It is pretty normal that Turkey improve her ties with her neighbouring countries.

I would love to see stong ties with Balkans, such as Serbia, Bulgaria, of course Greece, as well as Levant countries, also Caucassus.

Some time foreign journalist confuse having strong ties with invading these countries.

Turkey need market to sell product of her industry. That is why she promote hershelf with soap operas, strong ties, investments.

There are thousands and thosands of Turkish enterpreneurs and investments in Balkans and ME.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 04:24 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawnmowerman View Post
If the Turks were really intent on rebuilding the Ottoman empire they would be on the ground now in Syria as we speak.

They are not so this is just wind.
The thing is that they don't have to be "on the ground" to emphasize power, this was the main trait in the old days, but in our age, any power can exert "Influence" through many other ways....
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 04:29 AM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius Vorenus View Post
I couldn't agree more. Especially if we take into account the fact that Turkey is becoming a true giant in the world economic map.

I don't think this is just a wind. Erdogan is speaking the same for some time now, and it's obvious that turkey is trying to establish regular influence in Albania or Bosnia in which islamic traditions are still very, very strong. Even if it is not the case, turning back to EU and West and openly criticise their form of government is something we saw in some totalitary states(Ahmadinajad,, Gadaffi or Saddam). Don't you think?
It think criticising the West is done by even by their allies ! It wouldn't signify a change in stance toward because at the end every nation has to play it "right" !

And, its natural that Turkey turns its back to the EU ! they didnt' accept Turks in the first place ! Things would've been different if Ottomans were destined to have their Empire in Asia (or anywhere !)
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 04:35 AM   #8

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As I've said all along, big mistake not allowing Turkey to join the EU. Now Turkey is beginning to go the only way open to it, to become a regional hegemon. The fact that Turkey has 90 nuclear bombs in it's arsenals is also a factor that needs to be considered.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 04:54 AM   #9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
As I've said all along, big mistake not allowing Turkey to join the EU. Now Turkey is beginning to go the only way open to it, to become a regional hegemon. The fact that Turkey has 90 nuclear bombs in it's arsenals is also a factor that needs to be considered.
And economy growth rate 8,5%. I think Poland and Turkey are the only "European" countries that hasn't suffered recession so destructively.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 05:21 AM   #10

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I'm not so well informed on the area, but is not Turkey is the most westernised Islamic country in the world? It would be interesting to see whether it's people (primarily the women) are willing to revert to to a society resembling more the old Ottoman days. The flipside is the inception of more westernised ideals into the areas of the Middle East it 'takes over' - if indeed that is what it endeavours to do - and the usual response by those countries to western ideals (and I don't mean just I-phones and the internet, but women's rights, freedom of speech, separation of religion and state etc).
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