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Old November 9th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #31

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No, mostly because it wouldn't solve anything. It's better to solve the long term problems that caused the poverty, than it is to provide a temporary solution.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #32

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The weak escape by committing suicide, the strong kill the oppressor.
This is the law of the jungle, and it might have played a role in human evolution, but, as civil societies, we can do better.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #33
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This is the law of the jungle, and it might have played a role in human evolution, but, as civil societies, we can do better.
Jeez I was drunk last night when I posted. I would like to pose another question closely related to this one. Instead of having the option to help someone in poverty who is considering suicide, or not?

What if you have a choice between helping that person in need or helping another person in poverty who is not suicidal, but is starving just the same? Which one do you help, if you can only help one?
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #34
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This is the law of the jungle, and it might have played a role in human evolution, but, as civil societies, we can do better.
Civil societies of today have in-comprehensively humongous Military Budgets. I have written this before on this forum. It would be naive to assume that hyenas do not reside in large, well planned, and sophisticated cities of today.

Beneath the clothes we are all animals, if you ask me.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:27 PM   #35

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Civil societies of today have in-comprehensively humongous Military Budgets. I have written this before on this forum. It would be naive to assume that hyenas do not reside in large, well planned, and sophisticated cities of today.

Beneath the clothes we are all animals, if you ask me.
Yes, we are all animals, but we have the ability to analyze our actions and make changes. If we consider hyena societies we see that the physically strongest rules. This may be fine for them, but we can prove that there are better methods of conduct, which is what enables us to explore space, research scientific fields and understand ourselves.

Nevertheless, as Confucius said, this is cultural, and we can revert to being barbaric quite easily. Without education and a will to separate ourselves from the law of the jungle we easily revert to it, since it makes biological sense to us. An attitude that we are simply animals and should behave based on instincts leads us in this direction.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #36

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Jeez I was drunk last night when I posted. I would like to pose another question closely related to this one. Instead of having the option to help someone in poverty who is considering suicide, or not?

What if you have a choice between helping that person in need or helping another person in poverty who is not suicidal, but is starving just the same? Which one do you help, if you can only help one?

Ideally, helping the starving person and then asking him/her to aid in helping the person in need would be great, but I suppose you're saying that I can only help one of the two. Before I can answer that I need more details, such as the type of need of the first, and the likelihood of my aid to the starving person leading them out of poverty. If I'm simply delaying an inevitable death, then I'm not really helping the starving person.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #37
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Ideally, helping the starving person and then asking him/her to aid in helping the person in need would be great, but I suppose you're saying that I can only help one of the two. Before I can answer that I need more details, such as the type of need of the first, and the likelihood of my aid to the starving person leading them out of poverty. If I'm simply delaying an inevitable death, then I'm not really helping the starving person.
I ask not because I have an answer. I am 47, I have a good job, I live a reasonably comfortable life. When I was about 22, I had left college and I was hooked on drugs. I did not suffer from poverty in that I could get food and had a roof over my head, but I did run out of money to buy drugs all the time. That led to a suicide attempt, I cut my wrists. I didn't do a very good job of it, and the last 25 years have been fulfilling enough, and I have been a productive member of society. I am a manager at work, and the ladies I am friends with at work make life a wonderful thing, as my family does.

I guess if someone had a choice 25 years ago, I probably would not have been the one to choose over the starving man.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #38
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Yes, we are all animals, but we have the ability to analyze our actions and make changes. If we consider hyena societies we see that the physically strongest rules. This may be fine for them, but we can prove that there are better methods of conduct, which is what enables us to explore space, research scientific fields and understand ourselves.

Nevertheless, as Confucius said, this is cultural, and we can revert to being barbaric quite easily. Without education and a will to separate ourselves from the law of the jungle we easily revert to it, since it makes biological sense to us. An attitude that we are simply animals and should behave based on instincts leads us in this direction.
Education is good as long as it does not make us forget who we were. The strength of the past will make us strong in the present world. I do not respect Confucius and have resisted plenty of attempts at being brain washed.

I have found that whenever I trusted my instincts I have been happy. Whenever I curbed them - I have been down in the dumps for long periods of time. I am old enough to think for myself now, a quality which I never lacked.

BTW, we seem to be moving away from the title of the thread. Would you have time for discussing "The Suicide from Depression" - we could take Japan and South Korea as examples.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #39

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I ask not because I have an answer. I am 47, I have a good job, I live a reasonably comfortable life. When I was about 22, I had left college and I was hooked on drugs. I did not suffer from poverty in that I could get food and had a roof over my head, but I did run out of money to buy drugs all the time. That led to a suicide attempt, I cut my wrists. I didn't do a very good job of it, and the last 25 years have been fulfilling enough, and I have been a productive member of society. I am a manager at work, and the ladies I am friends with at work make life a wonderful thing, as my family does.

I guess if someone had a choice 25 years ago, I probably would not have been the one to choose over the starving man.
Then you are a lucky man, from being able to get your life sorted out. I don't have a high powered job and just work as a checkout girl at a food retail shop. When I was younger there was drugs around but I just flirted but never got addicted. I had decided to do something more shocking from the middle class area where I lived and became a socialist with a attitude that upset my mother and her neighbors. That was better than any drugsI could not stand snobbish behavior either.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #40

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Education is good as long as it does not make us forget who we were. The strength of the past will make us strong in the present world. I do not respect Confucius and have resisted plenty of attempts at being brain washed.

I have found that whenever I trusted my instincts I have been happy. Whenever I curbed them - I have been down in the dumps for long periods of time. I am old enough to think for myself now, a quality which I never lacked.

BTW, we seem to be moving away from the title of the thread. Would you have time for discussing "The Suicide from Depression" - we could take Japan and South Korea as examples.
Yes, people who live very simple lives and do what feels right are happier from day to day. However, they are also taken advantage of most.

As for the OP, deciding on whether or not to try and save a man about to commit suicide due to poverty is very different from the suicide common to Japan and South Korea. Those countries have relative high living standards, so the number of people starving from poverty is low, yet the suicides are common from cultural acceptance of them as well as high amounts of social pressure.
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