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Old November 4th, 2012, 08:11 AM   #11

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
I remember the Ozone Layer scare. It went away, but does that mean we as human beings fixed it? I doubt that very much. I wonder whether or not there ever was a valid reason to be afraid. Seeing how politics, and even scientific work, knowing that to get funding as a scientist you must come up with numbers that support a particular theory (climate change), well I find that disheartening to say the least.
Ozone depletion is still a problem, but has somewhat lessened because the world stopped using CFCs. It is as simple as that. I am sure if there were ozone hole deniers and impeded every law to ban CFCs, the problem would be many times worse now.

The problem is you suspect the science behind global climate change while not acknowledging that much of the anti-climate change science is funded by Exon and other oil companies. Read some of the statements of their CEOs. Ray Tillerson, CEO of Exon, came out and admitted that fossil fuels were causing climate change. His response? WE'll adapt and continue using oil. Ia that fair to future generations ?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 04:34 AM   #12

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
I remember the Ozone Layer scare. It went away, but does that mean we as human beings fixed it? I doubt that very much. I wonder whether or not there ever was a valid reason to be afraid. Seeing how politics, and even scientific work, knowing that to get funding as a scientist you must come up with numbers that support a particular theory (climate change), well I find that disheartening to say the least.
Still doubt climate change? Still attacking the messengers... and for the record Ozone depletion did not dissappear...

Quote:
It is suspected that a variety of biological consequences such as increases in skin cancer, cataracts,[3] damage to plants, and reduction of plankton populations in the ocean's photic zone may result from the increased UV exposure due to ozone depletion.
Ozone depletion was submerged under the tidal wave of papers on global warming... after all it won't matter much if we have skin problems if we find our house underwater when we get back from holidays.

As for your question... it is clear to me that people would sink the Earth for a nice margin.. if governments let them.

Last edited by rehabnonono; November 7th, 2012 at 04:40 AM.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #13

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People have always interfaced since the beginning of human families. Government actually exists in the simplest family structure according to control of the dominant gender. With power extending downward from either the Alpha male or the Alpha female. However, failure in family relationships has existed sine the mythical killing by Cain of Able.
"Government" becomes formally established when it becomes necessary for groups of people to co-exist in close proximity. Government becomes the administrator of the "social contract" or rules by which unified groups of people are required to embrace. Normally such rules are intended to create social stability, but they are also in place to provide everyone with their basic needs as well. And everyone was expected to contribute to the success of every community.
In time, though, such "rules" can evolve into a distinct division in how the rules apply to those at a common level and to those at the top. Here is where government always fails, since it does not take into account the needs of the much larger numbers of people government was originally intended to assist.
Many experiments have been conducted in the creation of various forms of government. So far, none have been successful in completely providing the needs of everyone under them. And as communities get larger and more diversified, this becomes ever more difficult because of the varying differences in how disparate groups see what government should be doing for "them." And thus revolutions inevitably become initiated. There may be actual physical limits at which any form of government reaches and is no longer viable or effective and then builds up the potential for revolution.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 10:50 AM   #14

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Nice to see Posset on Historum!

I don't have any sound on this PC so I couldn't hear that report but I may have some pertinent information about it.
I live three miles down the road from Portishead (Posset, pronounced Pozzit, to the locals) and have spent a lot of time there over the last twenty years.

I don't know if it was said in the report but the lifting of traffic regulations and the removal of traffic lights was not quite the bold experiment that the local authorities like to promote.
The facts are that when the top end of the high street was redesigned the resulting traffic system was so confusing that no one knew what was going on. I have driven 300+ miles a day for the last decade so am no novice behind the wheel but I could not be clear as to which of the many visible traffic lights was for me. Regardless of which direction you approached the junction from there were several lights visible with no obvious 'right' one. It was a shambolic mess and at rush hour the system ground to a halt, there were dozens of shunts and other accidents.
The local authorities and the Highways Agency denied, of course, that there was a problem but the local press and TV was full of outraged complaints from the public.
Eventually the furore got so bad that the Council decided to just remove the lights and the problem vanished as it becomes apparent who has right of way if motorists are allowed to approach the junction and are not forced to stop further back by traffic lights.

The council and local authorities like to trumpet their bold, innovative approach to traffic flow but this whole thing is just a fortuitous resolution to a massive mistake in the first place. The junction was incredibly badly designed and the lights were only removed because of fears that there would eventually be a fatality.

There may be something in the idea of 'people power' being the way forward but it irks me that North Somerset County Council are trying to take credit for a lucky outcome to their incompetence.

PS. If this was all said in the report then I apologise for wasting your time.
PPS. The White Lion (pub shown in the report) has all the charm and sophistication of an empty shoebox, even at the weekend. Avoid at all costs!
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Old November 11th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aulus Plautius View Post
You would not have a government without people to run it; people without government is anarchy. Anarchy equals chaos.

Government run by competent people runs well. Fill those offices with incompetents and government runs badly.

The question is rather difficult to answer. It depends on the government and the people.
I agree. I always have to question why a person wants to be a career politician and you're right about there has to be government & laws, (not to be broken at the whim) or
there is no society and no government.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:51 AM   #16
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I'd rather like to live in chaos than in a stable society where I am getting forced into coercion.

Reason: At least I can flee from chaos and make my own order. I can't flee from forced labor, torture and the like.

Alternatively, but that seems to be very rare, I'd like to live in a stable society with a government providing the stability, but where I can keep my freedom.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 02:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidius View Post
Nice to see Posset on Historum!

I don't have any sound on this PC so I couldn't hear that report but I may have some pertinent information about it.
I live three miles down the road from Portishead (Posset, pronounced Pozzit, to the locals) and have spent a lot of time there over the last twenty years.

I don't know if it was said in the report but the lifting of traffic regulations and the removal of traffic lights was not quite the bold experiment that the local authorities like to promote.
The facts are that when the top end of the high street was redesigned the resulting traffic system was so confusing that no one knew what was going on. I have driven 300+ miles a day for the last decade so am no novice behind the wheel but I could not be clear as to which of the many visible traffic lights was for me. Regardless of which direction you approached the junction from there were several lights visible with no obvious 'right' one. It was a shambolic mess and at rush hour the system ground to a halt, there were dozens of shunts and other accidents.
The local authorities and the Highways Agency denied, of course, that there was a problem but the local press and TV was full of outraged complaints from the public.
Eventually the furore got so bad that the Council decided to just remove the lights and the problem vanished as it becomes apparent who has right of way if motorists are allowed to approach the junction and are not forced to stop further back by traffic lights.

The council and local authorities like to trumpet their bold, innovative approach to traffic flow but this whole thing is just a fortuitous resolution to a massive mistake in the first place. The junction was incredibly badly designed and the lights were only removed because of fears that there would eventually be a fatality.

There may be something in the idea of 'people power' being the way forward but it irks me that North Somerset County Council are trying to take credit for a lucky outcome to their incompetence.

PS. If this was all said in the report then I apologise for wasting your time.
PPS. The White Lion (pub shown in the report) has all the charm and sophistication of an empty shoebox, even at the weekend. Avoid at all costs!
Thank you Davidius, it is cool that a member lives in the area. Actually the video doesn't really give credit to the council for removing the lights. It only covers the topic by saying that things work better without them.
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