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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #21

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In those days war was romantized adventure. And that particular war was supposed to be over in no time.
Agreed but still doesn't mean there would be 'no world wars'
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #22
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It really does depend on the circumstances. In my country there are enough volunteers so it is unnecessary. A vast World War could change that I guess. In the case of Israel, they are surrounded by enemies and need every person to serve for a time. In the wrong war, you can possibly go through something much worse than being drafted.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #23

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Yes there would, Britain for instance recruited an army of millions in WWI with nothing but volunteers.
But the volunteers eventually dry up.
In Australia we initially provided plenty of volunteers, but as the years went on and the damaged came home and the deaths piled up, it stopped seeming like a good idea to volunteer. And then the hardcore propaganda came out, and the govt pushed for Conscription.

Governments will get what they want. They play nicely when that works, but they will go hard when they need to.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #24

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It's a situation that really concerns me, particularly because of situations like this:
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Some 32 Turkish soldiers committed suicide for “suspicious reasons” during their compulsory military services, according to a statistical study by a the Rights of Conscripts Initiative, a group backed by the Human Rights Watch, Helsinki Citizens’ Assembly and other rights groups in Turkey.
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The report relies on 432 former soldiers’ claims of maltreatment endured during their military services. The report revealed the first statistical report on human rights violations committed against soldiers in the Turkish Armed Forces in 2012.

Some 48 percent of applications included complaints of insults, while 39 percent of applications included complaints of beatings. Some 16 percent of applications included complaints of forced excessive physical activity and 15 percent of applications included complaints of denial of access to proper health care.
Applications were received through the website askerhaklari.com for alleged violations of rights during compulsory military service in the period between April 25, 2011 and April 24, 2012. Ankara, Turkish Cyprus and Izmir placed at the top of the list where Conscript made applications for maltreatment.
RIGHTS - Rights violations in Turkish Army listed

I'm not criticizing the army but I think if people are going to have conscription they should make it essential that conscripts are treated decently and I think this is the biggest problem with conscription, that it often leads to abuse.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 02:11 AM   #25
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It's a situation that really concerns me, particularly because of situations like this:
RIGHTS - Rights violations in Turkish Army listed

I'm not criticizing the army but I think if people are going to have conscription they should make it essential that conscripts are treated decently and I think this is the biggest problem with conscription, that it often leads to abuse.
I'd say that depends on what kind of army you're running.

I don't think anyone should be too surprised about abuse in say the Soviet army for instance, and its legacy of abuse (not under civilian control), or the Turkish army (known record of removing civilian government and forming this "deep state", again undemocratic).

Provided the army is clearly in the service of a democratic state, I fail to see there should necessarily be problems. If you get a situation where a nation is essentially servicing the armed forces (which shouldn't in itself be a democracy), then problems can be expected.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 02:45 AM   #26

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Conscription is wrong only if regarded from the position of extreme individualism. A stance which is quite popular in so called Western society these days. One has to remember that he is a part of community and a citizen of state. Humans are not meant to function in proud isolation. Its not our nature. So its not possible just to be on your own and contribute only what you as an individual feel comfortable with. Even if it were possible - it would be highly egoistical position.

Plus for a man to do a service in army (if its not practicing some form of Russian gedovschina) is a highly valuable thing. I myself went to service as rather a pussyish lazy youngster and came out as much improved version of myself.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 03:04 AM   #27

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conscription is a dumb and inhumane policy. we are not small tribes like we were 10.000 years ago. wars are the extension of politics. on top of that, killing is a business that has to be done by professionals not some 18 or 20 year old that forcefully trained for 3 months.
some countries realized this but most didn't. but denmark's insistence on conscription still baffles me.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 03:50 AM   #28

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In many European democracies, maybe all of them, conscientious objection is an option and people can often find a way to get out of military service if they don't really want to do it since they have scaled back the size of their military. It's not really the same as countries which have near universal male conscription. The military is often the last place to change, not really sure why but I think because they are usually more secretive and not subject to the scrutiny of other institutions and people expect it to be harsh and think abuse is justifiable.

I hate this attitude that for a man to do military service it's a valuable thing, I mean it can be valuable but not for everyone. People shouldn't try to apply their own life experiences on everyone else, a lot of people come out bitter and angry.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:15 AM   #29

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I hate this attitude that for a man to do military service it's a valuable thing, I mean it can be valuable but not for everyone. People shouldn't try to apply their own life experiences on everyone else, a lot of people come out bitter and angry.
If a year of service in armed forces during peacetime makes one bitter and angry it means something is wrong with said army.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:22 AM   #30

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I hate this attitude that for a man to do military service it's a valuable thing, I mean it can be valuable but not for everyone. People shouldn't try to apply their own life experiences on everyone else, a lot of people come out bitter and angry.
that's the advertisement motto of that army like saying "paying taxes are sacred"
they're trying to justify that conscription is a good and holy thing.
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