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Old November 12th, 2012, 05:15 AM   #61

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I have a theory that an army of conscripts is better than an army of volunteers. I think a lot of people often join the military as a last resort, people with issues that prevent them from getting a "normal" job. And unfortunately this means we end up with a lot of knuckleheads in our armed forces. Not sure if it's true, just an idea I've had. So I don't mind conscription, especially during a time of war. I'd rather go to war with conscripts than volunteers.
There'd be loads of thugs, bullies, gangsters, boozeheads, whatever, in a real world army engaged in a real world war. They're going to get killed sooner or later just being what they are anyway. Why not give them the chance to die a better death, serving a much nobler cause, and redeeming themselves in the process.

And if they survive in the end, the discipline they'd have learned while in the army would stand them in much better stead for the rest of their life, while also enabling them to serve their society in a much better way.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 05:21 AM   #62

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I think we can look at conscription from two different perspectives. When there is an obvious and immdiate threat to the nation, like during WWII, or in Israel today, it is readily understood and accepted by the people. However conscription as a general impostion during peacetime with no immediate threat is something else again.
In peacetime conscription there is time to train these soldiers. How can anyone support conscription only in wartime, when a lot of these young men will die because of short training?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #63
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In peacetime conscription there is time to train these soldiers. How can anyone support conscription only in wartime, when a lot of these young men will die because of short training?
In these days, it isn't the quantity that matters, but the quality.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #64

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In these days, it isn't the quantity that matters, but the quality.
Some unfortunate countries have a 1000 kilometer long border with the Russians. A few brigades made of professional soldiers has no effect in this country.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:07 AM   #65
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Some unfortunate countries have a 1000 kilometer long border with the Russians. A few brigades made of professional soldiers has no effect in this country.
Even if you enlisted all men/women in Finland, they wouldn't be able to stop the Russians.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #66
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Even if you enlisted all men/women in Finland, they wouldn't be able to stop the Russians.
I'd have to agree. Russia is simply in a totally different weight class in manpower, military power and military technology. If Russia were to declare a war today, we wouldn't even have time to mobilize, before they'd have already bombed the airstrips to smithereens and occupied Helsinki. Not to mention that a war with Russia is a very remote possibility to start with, what with the EU and all.

Anyway, everyone knows that our true, sworn enomy is New Zealand. Those darned Kiwis...

New Zealand MP identifies Finland as a military threat – The Internaut – Commentary – New Zealand Listener
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Old November 13th, 2012, 03:26 AM   #67

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In these days, it isn't the quantity that matters, but the quality.
There is the cream, and there is the crop. You can't have just the cream, but not the crop.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 05:12 AM   #68

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Even if you enlisted all men/women in Finland, they wouldn't be able to stop the Russians.
The argument might be true, if Russia was at war alone with Finland. However the most probable option is that Russians can only concentrate a part of their army against us.

Even if Russia fights Finland alone, we would be able to inflict huge casualties, lengthen the war and, and if losing, we can continue the war as a guerrilla war. The price will be too high.

Because 70% of the men have military training the guerrilla war would be hard, long and bloody.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #69

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In the real world,

Oh, yeah, the wars they will be fought again
The holy dove she will be caught again
Bought, sold and bought again
The dove is never free,


which means that conscription is going to be around for a while yet.

On a theoretical level, however, I oppose conscription, basing my view on one found, if I remember correctly, in Dalton Trumbo's Johnny Got His Gun. The notion is that when a young man is being asked to lay down his life, he's laying down all he has, that which is most precious to him. He's entitled to get equal value in return for what he's sacrificing.

I don't trust the powers that be to give him an equal return. I don't think the powers that be have ever cared much about the lives they're sacrificing. A lot of lives have been thrown away for no good reason. People may have a duty to their country, but does their country recognize that it has a duty to them?
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Old November 13th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #70

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Originally Posted by Dreamhunter View Post
There'd be loads of thugs, bullies, gangsters, boozeheads, whatever, in a real world army engaged in a real world war. They're going to get killed sooner or later just being what they are anyway. Why not give them the chance to die a better death, serving a much nobler cause, and redeeming themselves in the process.

And if they survive in the end, the discipline they'd have learned while in the army would stand them in much better stead for the rest of their life, while also enabling them to serve their society in a much better way.
I'm not arguing against volunteers, of course they'd be conscripted too...
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