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View Poll Results: Do you support the legalization of heavy drugs?
Yes 29 47.54%
No 32 52.46%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 11th, 2012, 10:16 AM   #71

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidaire View Post
I already said that I was referring to heavy drugs, as is the predefined by the OP discussion, and even those are not all similar to each other (previous post). Geez, so many people are so touchy about 'soft drugs'.

I have a university degree in pharmacology, and I assure you I am very well informed about chemical substances. There are hellish drugs (heroin, angel's dust, crack, and others), and milder ones. Tobacco and alcohol can be considered soft drugs, too. Cannabis is not as innocent as you might think. It is a very complex pharmacological molecule, with various attributes. It can be used as a very strong painkiller and is being researched for many other promising uses. However, when used in excess, it may cause permanent brain damage.



This is what I said, referring to heavy drugs:



As I said, heavy drugs should be used with no punishment from the law, but they should be illegal to sell. Drug addicts should get their heroin, for example, by doctors working for the state, and for free.

One has to understand that there are two factors that contribute to the wide-spreading of heavy drugs. One is the free will and curiosity of a person to try them and experience them. This should be legal, although discouraged.
The other crucial factor is the economic gain of a whole multinational network that actively ensnares, lures and traps people in the use of heavy drugs, beyond what would have been a choice of free will. And of course, there is the issue of 'not clean' drugs, which is the main reason for the high death toll, especially regarding heroin use.

The profit incentive will have to be cut-off from heavy drugs' use. If this was done there would have been far less deaths and less addicted people.
I understand your stance now better and for the most part i agree. Personally, however i don't like the distinction between hard drugs and soft drugs. Drugs are drugs and in any case, to me, based on how addictive it is, nicotine falls in the "hard" category.

And also for the record, i don't think cannabis is innocent at all. I know from personal experience, however, that the really detrimental part about smoking cannabis is that it is often smoked together with tobacco. That mix is highly addictive. And last but not least, about "clean" drugs, that would be my main point for legalization. I've seen what they do to weed these days, to make it grow faster, to get a higher THC percentage and to make it weigh more and i think it's criminal. They're adding poison to the product and noone is doing anything about it.

I used to smoke cannabis as a teen and early twen, but stopped when i realized how poisonous the product had become over the years. Since then i've recommenced, but i only smoke from plants which i know are grown naturally, preferably even outdoors. It's a lot less "potent", it's still not "innocent", but i know it's a natural product which has been used for many centuries without grave consequences. you can combine it with a normal life. I would advise anyone i care about to stay away from the new kinds of weed which have been flooding the market since the mid to late 90s, but especially since the 2000s. They add poison to it. I wouldn't call amnesia (a kind of weed very popular in these parts) and the likes "soft" drugs either.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 10:31 AM   #72

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This must be a spin-off thread from the legalization of pot. I voted yes on the legalization of pot, but that is where I draw the line in the sand.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
Sorry for your tough deal in life.
My older brother has done drugs since he as about 16 and today he
lives in a trailer, no education, a drop out and in poor health.
He used drugs for decades, all the while being the 'tough guy', no one
was going to tell what to do and the law, they just better leave me alone
or else. That was his thinking. He was able to hold a job for awhile, but
he kept losing them because he was unable to report to work from
being strung out on dope. Two divorces and seven kids later, he owes
$50K in back child support for seven kids, lives in a tiny trailer doing
menial jobs for the land owner. The root of his problem? Drugs.
Why did he start taking drugs?
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Old November 11th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #74

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Originally Posted by mikainen View Post
Why did he start taking drugs?
He was young, started running with the bad crowd. He is the only one of
my two sisters and myself to have chosen that life path.
He would save his lunch money and he and his friends would go buy a bag
of pot, smoke it in their back shed. My brother's mood became violent. I don't know
how many times we nearly came to blows and he even attacked my mother once.
Once he tried to fist fight my father. Drug use was all new to my family and we didn't
see the signs. He had a girlfriend who did drugs as she came from a family who did
drugs as well. They both dropped out of school and as a sophomore in High School
he had his first kid. Later he told me of his drug stories of how he'd get harder
drugs and go to a beach and just get high. Today his health is a wreck and
he wants us to feel sorry for him? I say "you were the big man then, take care of
yourself now big man."
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Old November 11th, 2012, 12:02 PM   #75

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The merchant of Venice View Post
When it comes to legalization of drugs, the debate often focuses on marijuana, and not many people agree/talk about the full legalization of drugs, including nasty things like cocaine heroine etc.

What's your stance on the issue? I know that's there's a topic on weed in the lounge, but here I would like to focus only on the most dangerous drugs.
I'm in favour of being legalized. However there would have to be state funded publicitary campaigns against its use like in smoking and there should be prohibition of use in some situations like alcohol.

The reason is that besides saving many lifes and saving tax payers a lot of money it would make easier the goal of rescuing people consuming those substances. It would also be the end of drug cartels.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 12:14 PM   #76

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One of my friends from high school died last month from a bad dose of Ecstasy that she took at a rave. All I can think is that if it was legal, it could be quality controlled and she might still be alive.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #77

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidaire View Post
My friend, drugs are the most enslaving substances around. A person should be free to destroy his own life, but not allowed to destroy the lives of others; hence the need to legalise drug use, but crack down on drug selling and distribution. Drugs should be totally cut-off from the profit incentive and become a state controlled and heavily supervised health sector.

Many people compare tobacco and alcohol, as well as other habits damaging health, with drugs. This is a superficial comparison, as the latter are incomparably more addictive and damaging. It takes just one or two shots to get addicted to heroin, and it is extremely difficult to break away from it. Other drugs are also extremely addictive, many cause permanent brain damage and paranoia, as well as general health issues. The pace that drugs enslave and destroy, is simply not comparable with that of any other addiction. Therefore we cannot equate their handling with that of other vices.
Every person has his kind of dose, and like alcohol, drugs must be taken moderately, and the freedom that a person has to use them or not to, is in keeping with the civil liberties that are naturally endowed to everyone. It is correct that there must be government regulation over the matter, but it should not a total restriction on the basis of the civil liberty that each has being a human.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #78

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific_Victory View Post
One of my friends from high school died last month from a bad dose of Ecstasy that she took at a rave. All I can think is that if it was legal, it could be quality controlled and she might still be alive.
Indeed, that "quality control" is of paramount importance.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #79

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The merchant of Venice View Post
Also, Solidaire, what do you think of gambling? should casinos and such be statalized too?
Why should they? I don't see the point. Honestly, what does this have to do with drugs? It's not as if every human vice should be controlled by the government. Heaven's forbid, we're not living in an Orwellian totalitarianism ala 1984, nor in a Puritan colony of the 17th century.

Personally, I believe that a little vice is needed to add taste to life. Certain drugs however are not just vices, but a whole different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeno View Post
I understand your stance now better and for the most part i agree. Personally, however i don't like the distinction between hard drugs and soft drugs. Drugs are drugs and in any case, to me, based on how addictive it is, nicotine falls in the "hard" category.

...
Agreed Zeno, with one minor objection: the distinction between 'hard' and 'soft' is not so about addictiveness, but about lethality and damaging potential. Coffee is addictive too, but it's hardly a 'heavy' drug. Nicotine is addictive, but ten cigs a day haven't killed anyone. Cocaine does not cause chemical addiction, and yet is a very potent and damaging substance (it's actually a local anaesthetic, strange, huh?). A slight overdose can kill you on the spot, and an extended use severely damages internal organs. It is therefore rightfully considered a 'heavy' drug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagul View Post
Every person has his kind of dose, and like alcohol, drugs must be taken moderately, and the freedom that a person has to use them or not to, is in keeping with the civil liberties that are naturally endowed to everyone. It is correct that there must be government regulation over the matter, but it should not a total restriction on the basis of the civil liberty that each has being a human.
Dagul, are you aware what heroin is? Have you ever met heroin addicts? You can't take her "moderately". You can't control her like alcohol, cannabis, or tobacco.

Besides, what I'm saying is that it's the trading that should be illegal, not the use. Where's the restriction of 'civil liberties' in this? Unless you consider the selling of drugs a 'civil liberty' and a 'right'.

Last edited by Solidaire; November 11th, 2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #80

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^Oh yes, I know its adverse effects to users who are hooked in it. But it is their choice, the way they like to dwell into gambling or alcoholism.

Regarding the trading of drugs, if that shall be prohibited, then how can the people use them in the first place? Someone must sell it before users can obtain them. Of course, I am for government regulation and intervention over the matter, but not on the draconian drug laws that imprison people for years and worst they're killed in other jurisdictions.
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