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Old November 12th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
Interesting take. Is this from Eastern Philosophy, or some other religion perhaps?
It is my own personal experience for many years.

I won't explain my personal experiences with this, but I'd like to explain it by logic:

Bad things happen to bad people.
Good things happen to good people.
Bad things happen to good people.
Good things happen to bad people.

Since good things happen for bad people, it is bad things happening for good people too, because bad people experiencing good things are just abusing it to do bad things to good people.
Therefore it is bad things for good people that good things happen for bad people.

We can calculate the relationship between good/evil in the world. Plus means good, minus means bad:

Bad = -1
Good = +1

Bad things happen to bad people. = +1
Good things happen to good people. = +1
Bad things happen to good people. = -1
Good things happen to bad people. = -2

Then we have to calculate the relationship between good and bad:

So the calculation of the result would be: 0 + 2 - 1 - 2 = 2 - 3 = -1

The world is evil!

Last edited by philosopher; November 12th, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #22

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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosopher View Post
It is my own personal experience for many years.

I won't explain my personal experiences with this, but I'd like to explain it by logic:

Bad things happen to bad people.
Good things happen to good people.
Bad things happen to good people.
Good things happen to bad people.

Since good things happen for bad people, it is bad things happening for good people too, because bad people experiencing good things are just abusing it to do bad things to good people.
Therefore it is bad things for good people that good things happen for bad people.

We can calculate the relationship between good/evil in the world. Plus means good, minus means bad:

Bad = -1
Good = +1

Bad things happen to bad people. = +1
Good things happen to good people. = +1
Bad things happen to good people. = -1
Good things happen to bad people. = -2

Then we have to calculate the relationship between good and bad:

So the calculation of the result would be: 0 + 2 - 1 - 2 = 2 - 3 = -1

The world is evil!
It is impossible to calculate such a thing. For we cannot define who is good or bad. Who decides who is good or bad?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #23

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Because we are not loved by any being in the universe, we are not protected, we are not over-looked and admired. We are alone, the world is chaos and as the Earl says, full of random chance. I might make bad decisions because of a circumstance, but who cares? Nobody! I may act a certain way because of a circumstance, is it then my fault, am I a bad person? Do I deserve bad things to happpen to me so that someone 'good' can gain what I lost?

Where and how exactly do we define what is good and what is bad? Who gets onto this 'good list' in the first place? Who decides? Sometimes people do bad things but for the right reasons - in others words, everyone makes mistakes and we can **** up majorly - but does that make us bad?

I think it is unfair to suggest who is good and bad because we don't know the circumstances which surround people and their situations. The problem is that we judge people too easily and never consider how we would react if we were in the same situation. Plus all of these so called 'good people' may have lesser genuine intentions for how they are than someone who seeems bad. We don't know the heart of all people.

I understand when something bad happens to a person we care for or even ourselves and we feel that we/they are good people and it is unfair. But all we have is this earth and all which is upon it. The very nature of this earth is unforgiving. Animals eat each other. Why is it fair that a lion could chase a deer and tear it apart whilst it is still alive, eating it with the deer suffering? This happens in the animal kingdom all the time. All the deer (just as one example) wants to do is eat and survive, yet nature allows this lion to come and savage it? Bacterias are constantly at war, the bad that kills us and plants and other animals, and the good that tries to withstand it. We as people are also at odds, we cannot live in peace and we fight and war and argue and just cannot be peaceful as a species. It is the very nature of the life on this earth that dictates to us the answer to your question.

Why do bad things happen to good people? The answer is nature does not care who is good or bad. Nature is random and has no empathy towards good, bad, male, female, human, cat, dog, fish... none, not one.

I believe this is why people seek religion (or one reason why at least) because we are alone, and when we are desperate we can only look upwards to the heavens for help because the world is so chaotic. The only problem is that wishing and wanting and begging for help to an empty sky will not give you an answer and it will not solve the problem and it will not stop bad things from happening to good people.

This is why we need to enjoy what we can of our lives. Try to get rid of people who are bad in our lives (easier said than done, I know!!) try to enjoy the simpliest things. Try to be more content and be less materialistic. Try to do the right thing by the ones we loves and not let our hurts overshadow our chances of happiness.

I believe we only get one chance at life, this is it. We never know what wil happen, good or bad. So better to grasp at happiness each and every moment we can, because the rest of it can be painful and chaotic.


Here speaks the voice of reason, Bri is enlightened.



Quote:
Originally Posted by philosopher View Post
It is my own personal experience for many years.

I won't explain my personal experiences with this, but I'd like to explain it by logic:

Bad things happen to bad people.
Good things happen to good people.
Bad things happen to good people.
Good things happen to bad people.

Since good things happen for bad people, it is bad things happening for good people too, because bad people experiencing good things are just abusing it to do bad things to good people.
Therefore it is bad things for good people that good things happen for bad people.

We can calculate the relationship between good/evil in the world. Plus means good, minus means bad:

Bad = -1
Good = +1

Bad things happen to bad people. = +1
Good things happen to good people. = +1
Bad things happen to good people. = -1
Good things happen to bad people. = -2

Then we have to calculate the relationship between good and bad:

So the calculation of the result would be: 0 + 2 - 1 - 2 = 2 - 3 = -1

The world is evil!

All due respect, but this calculation is utterly absurd. You might as well calculate the bad luck of ginger people and correlate it to the flight of sparrows. It's nothing more than reading entrails.

Good things and bad things based on what? According to what positions of birth, intelligence etc?

Bearing in mind, of course, that nature couldn't care less for what is good and what is bad. They are essentially meaningless simply because they're man made constructs based on the current assumptions of society.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 10:11 AM   #24
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Hitler was good or bad.....???
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Old November 12th, 2012, 10:21 AM   #25

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl_of_Rochester View Post
Here speaks the voice of reason, Bri is enlightened.
Thanks Earl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelica View Post
Hitler was good or bad.....???
In my eyes Hitler was bad, and that is an understatement!

But in the eyes of an Nazi supporter, he was good.

So who decides who is right here? You would think it is obvious to us, but in nature there is no right or wrong answer.

If an earthquake happens both good and bad people die. The earth, the tremor, the ground, the buildings crumbling, the sheer force and power of the quake - none care whether Hitler is in the building or Ghandi - the building will still crumble.

Nature can be cruel because it does not care for the same morals that we do. The rules of nature do not apply to the moralistic rules of mankind.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #26
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In my eyes Hitler was bad, and that is an understatement!

But in the eyes of an Nazi supporter, he was good.
I disagree with you. I firmly believe that those who support Hitler, support him because he is evil.

They don't think Hitler was good. They know Hitler was bad, and that's why they supported him. It's not like to them Hitler was good, its more like
they like to inflict pain on others, and Hitler did just that. That's why they celebrate him. To them, evilness is the only thing they believe in.

They may say otherwise, but that's just propaganda and lying.

Quote:
Nature can be cruel because it does not care for the same morals that we do. The rules of nature do not apply to the moralistic rules of mankind.
Which is exactly why I call nature evil.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
Thanks Earl.



In my eyes Hitler was bad, and that is an understatement!

But in the eyes of an Nazi supporter, he was good.

So who decides who is right here? You would think it is obvious to us, but in nature there is no right or wrong answer.

If an earthquake happens both good and bad people die. The earth, the tremor, the ground, the buildings crumbling, the sheer force and power of the quake - none care whether Hitler is in the building or Ghandi - the building will still crumble.

Nature can be cruel because it does not care for the same morals that we do. The rules of nature do not apply to the moralistic rules of mankind.
I agree we cannot control nature never the less in the face of destruction many struggle with this question “why did it happened” because it is human tendency to want answers.

Human action on the other hand can be socially condition. The statement the good die young is not merely a cliché think of Martin Luther King, JFK, and the young Middle Eastern teenager who were fatally wounded….. etc. According to society standard these individuals were/are good. Now think of the evil that exist in Castro or other atrocious personalities.


From this perspective I understand the inner struggle to want to be able to rationalize and hopefully "make sense" of such uncertainty.

Last edited by Angelica; November 12th, 2012 at 11:24 AM.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #28
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I agree we cannot control nature never the less in the face of destruction many struggle with this question “why did it happened” because it is human tendency to want answers.

Human action on the other hand can be socially condition. The statement the good die young is not merely a cliché think of Martin Luther King, JFK, and the young Middle Eastern teenager who were fatally wounded….. etc. According to society standard these individuals were/are good. Now think of the evil that exist in Castro or other atrocious personalities.


From this perspective I understand the inner struggle to want to be able to rationalize and hopefully "make sense" of such uncertainty.
Your definition of 'good' seems to be 'people I approve of': I could make some negative points about the 'goodness' of both Kennedy and Martin Luther King, and some very positive ones about Fidel Castro, but it wouldn't alter the fact that all sorts of people die for all sorts of reasons, and if you think there is some heavenly accountant fixing it you are inevitably in for a disappointment. I could argue that the generation that came of age during World War 1 was probably the most humanly promising ever, but they died because imperialism was struggling for protected markets and could use their idealism - so in that case, okay, perhaps the good died young in a sense. But, on the other hand, what were they doing when they died? It doesn't seem to me that this discussion is sensible unless you have HUGE unstated assumptions.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:43 AM   #29

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Bad things likelly to happen to people who live in risk, and also who doesn't have any precautions.

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Hitler was good or bad.....???
Who you are is what you do.

He was bad, because what he did was bad. Living a life is a right. He took living right of millions of people. It was what he did.

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Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
So who decides who is right here? You would think it is obvious to us, but in nature there is no right or wrong answer.
Natural law is tool to judge who is bad or good. Measurement of goodness is life saving and maintaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelica View Post
If an earthquake happens both good and bad people die. The earth, the tremor, the ground, the buildings crumbling, the sheer force and power of the quake - none care whether Hitler is in the building or Ghandi - the building will still crumble.

Nature can be cruel because it does not care for the same morals that we do. The rules of nature do not apply to the moralistic rules of mankind.
Nature kills all of us so that It will give a life to another. We will all have our turn. Is It bad thing to take a life on purpose to give a life to another?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #30

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the young Middle Eastern teenager who were fatally wounded…..
Which teenager?
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