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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:25 PM   #11
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For me, in general, the more fact is in a thread and the less opinion, the better. Threads where people just beat each other the head with their opinions are a big waste of time for me. You'll rarely change anyone else's opinion with your own opinion. Facts, on the other hand, can make a difference.

But there are also certain threads that call for opinion. Where appropriate, these can be nice to see where people stand. But these are usually the Lounge type threads, rather than the historical threads.
When you argue a point such as "Alexander should never have gone into Afghanistan, that was a bridge too far" and your counter-arguer actually then downloads a full page of quoted material, do you always read that full page? I normally would depending on how late it is in the evening or my mood, but not always for sure. Some quoted material is something I could have searched for myself anyway and is of dubious origin perhaps. I just wonder how people view the give and take.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #12

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When you argue a point such as "Alexander should never have gone into Afghanistan, that was a bridge too far" and your counter-arguer actually then downloads a full page of quoted material, do you always read that full page? I normally would depending on how late it is in the evening or my mood, but not always for sure. Some quoted material is something I could have searched for myself anyway and is of dubious origin perhaps. I just wonder how people view the give and take.
I rarely would read an entire page of quoted material (although I'd rather read an entire page of quoted material than an entire page of somebody spouting off with their own opinion). What I like is when someone posts a full page of quoted material, then highlights the sections of it that make their point. That way you can see instantly what they're driving at, and you can see the context it's in. If the context looks interesting, you can always read that too, but it's often not necessary.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #13
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The ABSOLUTE WORST is the Ad Hitlerums. There was a while there were it seemed like that was going on in practically every other thread. I have to admit I was getting pretty fed up with this forum back then. But fortunately (knocking on wood), that has toned down a lot lately.
You have probably heard of this, but they call it Godwin's Law. Given time, a heated discussion will always invoke the name of Hitler. I first heard of it when Lucius mentioned it on a thread months ago, and ever since I can tell you it is definitely true.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #14

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You have probably heard of this, but they call it Godwin's Law. Given time, a heated discussion will always invoke the name of Hitler. I first heard of it when Lucius mentioned it on a thread months ago, and ever since I can tell you it is definitely true.
Indeed. For a while there, it was usually happening by the third or fourth word of the thread title.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #15
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Indeed. For a while there, it was usually happening by the third or fourth word of the thread title.
What other fallacies are there? One that comes to mind is the agenda based argument, where you simply look for any evidence at all that will support your claim. Or then again, maybe you don't even look for evidence, you just argue your claim, hoping something will stick and other people will magically say "Thank you for informing me of that"
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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #16

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What other fallacies are there? One that comes to mind is the agenda based argument, where you simply look for any evidence at all that will support your claim. Or then again, maybe you don't even look for evidence, you just argue your claim, hoping something will stick and other people will magically say "Thank you for informing of that"
Oh yeah. Plenty of that here. And then when they don't get the magic result they were looking for, they get all huffy about it.

Another oldie but goodie is the topic change. If the conversation isn't going the way you want it, just change the subject!
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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #17

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Oh, and here's a corollary to the topic change. Introduce a thread with a laundry list of a dozen different related topics. That way, any time any one of them isn't going your way, you can readily switch to one of the others.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #18
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Oh, and here's a corollary to the topic change. Introduce a thread with a laundry list of a dozen different related topics. That way, any time any one of them isn't going your way, you can readily switch to one of the others.
Oh God, I probably actually have used that one Rongo, at least sometime on Historum. One of them was definitely a Civil War thread where I remember distinctly you saying "this thread isn't about that". I remember it being an emotional topic about the South. If we do get more viewers on this thread, I hope that they see that part. We all do wrong or irritating things sometimes, it does not mean you are a bad person.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:06 PM   #19

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Haha! No, I don't remember that. It's funny though, I was sitting here trying to think of an example I could pull up, but I was coming up blank. I've actually seen it a lot more on other forums than on this one. But yeah, that's the subject area where I've seen it come up most often: the Civil War. Trying to put the entire freaking war in a single thread!
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #20

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What kind of discussions do you enjoy? ..What do you think?
My hobby is to learn, I'm a learner.
If someone wants to communicate with me, I'll be happy to read
what they wrote. They just might be right.
But where my ears fold down, not back in fight mode, but in smelling
what I smell, is where a person gives absolutely no credence to what
I have to offer or points I make. If you don't listen to me, I'm not
listening to you. Talk to me, site passages from actual real books and
let me know I"m talking to a person who has read a book, instead of
skimming the internet and let a web site talk for you. Links are fine, but
when you base your entire debate on cut and paste, that shows you
haven't read a book, don't own a book and you only stand on opinion.
Talk to me, listen to me and together we can learn something from
each other and when we finish our debate, we're either new friends or
remain friends and come away a little bit better than we we started.
That's how to argue with me. Simple.
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