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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #31

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Actually, my favorite way to discuss anything historical, was best put by Pacific Victory. I quote again:

Quote:
opinions are worthless without facts, but facts are dry without opinion. It takes both.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:26 PM   #32

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I would think the iconic canon taught in Lawyering 101 would be useful in debating... "Never ask a question that you do not already know the answer to."
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #33

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Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
I would think the iconic canon taught in Lawyering 101 would be useful in debating... "Never ask a question that you do not already know the answer to."
Well, that would depend on what your ultimate goal is. If the goal is to win the debate, that would be true. But if your goal is to learn something, ask away.

One of the things I like about debating (good debating, that is) is that I learn so much more from the give-and-take exchange with a knowledgeable "opponent" than I ever could from just reading a book.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #34

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I try to be funny, and informative (but i think i fail in both)



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It draws attention Gorge. Anyway the cavalry is arriving, I see Pacific Victory and Rongo at the bottom of the screen, you can't do any better than that.
Virgil can I join the cavalry?
I'm good with horse's
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:38 AM   #35

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Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
My hobby is to learn, I'm a learner.
If someone wants to communicate with me, I'll be happy to read
what they wrote. They just might be right.
But where my ears fold down, not back in fight mode, but in smelling
what I smell, is where a person gives absolutely no credence to what
I have to offer or points I make. If you don't listen to me, I'm not
listening to you. Talk to me, site passages from actual real books and
let me know I"m talking to a person who has read a book, instead of
skimming the internet and let a web site talk for you. Links are fine, but
when you base your entire debate on cut and paste, that shows you
haven't read a book, don't own a book and you only stand on opinion.
Talk to me, listen to me and together we can learn something from
each other and when we finish our debate, we're either new friends or
remain friends and come away a little bit better than we we started.
That's how to argue with me. Simple.
That sounds fair enough to me.

I am not academic in any shape or form. I have read books but I cannot quote them word for word and sometimes may recall something slightly off to what I read because the memory is too vague. I've not the time and patience at current to be browsing websites and cut and pasting onto every single comment I make. Not sure whether that is the route I would take anyway to be honest. I sometimes wonder whether people think less of my comments for this reason. Because clearly there are intellectuals on this site who I cannot compete with in an discussion to the same level sometimes.

Since history is just an interest for me, it is mainly my opinion which is formed from various sources that I use in a discussion. But I do like to ponder on questions and thoughts about different things. If I make a suggestion then I can only explain it the best possible way (though sometimes fail in this and can make a pigs ear of it) and hope that others can enlighten me in the discussion.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:05 AM   #36

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
That sounds fair enough to me.

I am not academic in any shape or form. I have read books but I cannot quote them word for word and sometimes may recall something slightly off to what I read because the memory is too vague. I've not the time and patience at current to be browsing websites and cut and pasting onto every single comment I make. Not sure whether that is the route I would take anyway to be honest. I sometimes wonder whether people think less of my comments for this reason. Because clearly there are intellectuals on this site who I cannot compete with in an discussion to the same level sometimes.

Since history is just an interest for me, it is mainly my opinion which is formed from various sources that I use in a discussion. But I do like to ponder on questions and thoughts about different things. If I make a suggestion then I can only explain it the best possible way (though sometimes fail in this and can make a pigs ear of it) and hope that others can enlighten me in the discussion.
A Lady after my own heart. You say your not academically trained and neither am I. That may sound like small comfort to you. But you do obviously keep up with the best of them far better than i ever could! Well again, that sounds like small comfort. You're certainly very knowledgeable and you don't have anything to worry about here. Most places where i go on this forum hold you in high esteem from what i have read. So again, absolutely no need to worry! Me on the other hand... i usually duck for cover or scramble trying to get out of the way.

Last edited by Panthera tigris altaica; November 15th, 2012 at 03:10 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:17 AM   #37

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
A Lady after my own heart. You say your not academically trained and neither am I. That may sound like small comfort to you. But you do obviously keep up with the best of them far better than i ever could! Well again, that sounds like small comfort. You're certainly very knowledgeable and you don't have anything to worry about here. Most places where i go on this forum hold you in high esteem from what i have read. So again, absolutely no need to worry! Me on the other hand... i usually duck for cover or scramble trying to get out of the way.
That is very sweet Pantha, thanks.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:17 AM   #38

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In my case, I enjoy when I argue. I like the art of argumentation and debate.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:27 AM   #39

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
That sounds fair enough to me.

I am not academic in any shape or form. I have read books but I cannot quote them word for word and sometimes may recall something slightly off to what I read because the memory is too vague. I've not the time and patience at current to be browsing websites and cut and pasting onto every single comment I make. Not sure whether that is the route I would take anyway to be honest. I sometimes wonder whether people think less of my comments for this reason. Because clearly there are intellectuals on this site who I cannot compete with in an discussion to the same level sometimes.

Since history is just an interest for me, it is mainly my opinion which is formed from various sources that I use in a discussion. But I do like to ponder on questions and thoughts about different things. If I make a suggestion then I can only explain it the best possible way (though sometimes fail in this and can make a pigs ear of it) and hope that others can enlighten me in the discussion.
Brisieis i must say that i really enjoy your posts, they are very informative and polite,you said that you are not academic but you have one vast knowledge of history

now for me the english being my third language i had dificults to express my opinions sometimes and why I do not participate much (and tha fact that compared with the other members of historum I'm almost a Cro-Magnon), and for that motive i normally dont enter in debate, but i grab the popcorn and read the people arguing

PS: post number 500
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:36 AM   #40

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongo View Post
Well, that would depend on what your ultimate goal is. If the goal is to win the debate, that would be true. But if your goal is to learn something, ask away.

One of the things I like about debating (good debating, that is) is that I learn so much more from the give-and-take exchange with a knowledgeable "opponent" than I ever could from just reading a book.
I knew someone would respond with that. I win!

Seriously though, you are correct as to debates in the forum. I guess I meant when the opponent is obviously wrong and know it, but will not yield out of pride... the court tactic is useful. Especially in revisionist debates. I tend to view a debate that revolves around an established historical fact where misconceptions are corrected in open give and take, and where the "loser" is the actual winner in coming away with knowledge gained, as more a discussion.
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