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Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


View Poll Results: Race, ethnicity or species?
Race 9 32.14%
Ethnicity 18 64.29%
Species 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 16th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #161

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Originally Posted by Mike McClure View Post
Different is not a value judgement. If I say that Blacks are different from me does not mean I am saying they are less than me.
Wouldn't you say they are less white than you?

People are equal in one thing only: equal right to dignified life. In all other aspect they are unequal. Not just as individuals but also as a groups.
Blacks are in many things less then you and in many things more. For one they are less white and more black
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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:11 PM   #162
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Wouldn't you say they are less white than you?

People are equal in one thing only: equal right to dignified life. In all other aspect they are unequal. Not just as individuals but also as a groups.
Blacks are in many things less then you and in many things more. For one they are less white and more black
Yup, we have already been here more than once.

The blackest people of Papua is actually closer to the whiter Slovaks than to the black people of South Africa.

Pretending to "describe" nature just from your superficial impression of the color of the human skin couldn't be any more unscientifically fighting against it
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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #163

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Pretending to "describe" nature just from your superficial impression of the color of the human skin couldn't be any more unscientifically fighting against it
Colour is one of the more commonly used physical attributes by science when describing nature.

Black_Grouse Black_Grouse

Brown_trout Brown_trout

Rainbow_trout Rainbow_trout

American_black_bear American_black_bear


Keep fighting
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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #164
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Color is just one among literally millions of traits used for biological taxonomy.

It would be absurd to the Nth degree to depend just on it and to ignore myriad exponentially more critical factors just because they may be beyond your naked eye.

BTW, guess you are well aware that black bears (either Ursus americanus or thibetanus) can actually be cinnamon, blond, white, light brown, or even dark chocolate brown, right?

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The same could be said about virtually all of your "black" animal examples.

Maybe you shouldn't discriminate and try to review the white ones too, huh?

Last edited by sylla1; November 16th, 2012 at 03:37 PM.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #165

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Color is one of literally millions of traits used for biological taxonomy
I newer claimed colour to be only human attribute used for description.

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
BTW, guess you are well aware that black bears (either Ursus americanus or thibetanus) can actually be cinnamon, blond, white, light brown, or even dark chocolate brown, right?
You see, they are still scientifically called black. But that is OK, some Blacks can also be light brown
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Old November 16th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #166
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I newer claimed colour to be only human attribute used for description.


You see, they are still scientifically called black. But that is OK, some Blacks can also be light brown
Your exact claim was
Quote:
Colour is one of the more commonly used physical attributes by science when describing nature
such unqualified claim at face value could be quite misleading here, especially given the sensible nature of the topic of this thread.

You see, they are actually scientifically called Ursus americanus & thibetanus;"black" is not part of such scientific names.

But even if it were the case, it would just be a name; period.




Whaaat???
Some blacks can be not black?
Don't tell me that, please!
The very fabric of the Universe is going to collapse!!!!!
If we can't rely in color, then what?

Last edited by sylla1; November 16th, 2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #167
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You see, they are actually scientifically called Ursus americanus & thibetanus;"black" is not part of such scientific names.
You beat me to it!

Anyway:

Races exist... they do... in DOGS!!!

In humans the genetic differences between two black individuals and between a black individual and an asian are, statistically the same, in other words the diversity is illusory

Aeta_peoples Aeta_peoples
and Life of Aborigines second worst on earth - National - www.theage.com.au neither is african, both are black...
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Old November 17th, 2012, 03:14 AM   #168
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This gets deeper than racism alone.

When people put one another into separate groups, use labels and try to define differences. This can not only create superiority complexes but inferiority complexes also. Why do people need to be labeled and stereotyped? It is like every little part of who we are has to have a label. Like we need to be in a certain catergory. For instance, if you put yourself into a catergory of people with big noses, you even tell people "yes, I am big nosed" and people label you as big nosed. It is only a matter of time before the following happens;

1. You do something wrong, so the smaller nosed people blame it on you being different - having a big nose.

2. A smaller nosed person wrongs you, so you blame their nose size.

3. You get a complex that whenever someone is rude to you, it is because they think you have a big nose.

4. Whether your intent is good or not, you are separating yourself from other people - all over a nose.

The list could go on and on, but I think you guys are bright enough to get the point here.

If we constantly label ourselves, not only are we setting ourselves up for segregating others but, also ourselves. If we constantly see differences, refer to other humans as being separate from ourselves, then we are just setting ourselves up (as a species) for yet another dehumanization of a said group.

Yes we are all different. Yes it is great to embrace our differences. Yes it is interesting that we do not all look the same. No we do not want a totalitarian world! But, it is a very dangerous thought process to take prejudice against other 'groups' and call it 'natural' ... it leads to negative prejudices and irrational fears.

Fair enough, we are different in appearance. But take a room full of white English people, all will look different (unless two are identical twins) all will have unique personalities, all will have different stories to tell you of their lives, all will have different opinions and different temperaments. So why should adding an Italian, Chinese, Arab or African to the room change anything? Would the added person who looks a bit different because of one facial feature or skin tone, change the room? No, it is just another human being added to a room of other humans beings. All the English people look different anyway, so what if another nationality is added that is a shade or two darker?

People are people, we are one species and the sooner we let go of this labelng and group mentality - the better.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #169

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Your exact claim was such unqualified claim at face value could be quite misleading here, especially given the sensible nature of the topic of this thread.
Do you see any contradiction in those two sentences you quoted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
You see, they are actually scientifically called Ursus americanus & thibetanus;"black" is not part of such scientific names.
Beckmann, J.P. 2002. Changing dynamics of a population of black bears (Ursus americanus): causes and consequences. Ph.D. dissertation. University of Nevada, Reno

Beckmann, J. P. and J. Berger. 2003a. Using black bears to test ideal-free distribution
models experimentally. Journal of Mammalogy

American Black Bear (Ursa americana Pallas) From: Saunders, D. A. 1988. Adirondack Mammals. State University of New York, College of Environmental Science and Forestry. 216pp. and Sage, R.W., Jr., and S. Simek. 1994. Adirondack Black Bears. State University of New York, College of Environmental Science and Forestry, Environmental Information Series

Pelletier, A., M. E. Obbard, K. Mills, E. J. Howe, F. G. Burrows, B. N. White and C. J. Kyle. 2012. Delineating genetic groupings in continuously distributed species across largely homogeneous landscapes: a study of American black bears (Ursus americanus) in Ontario, Canada. Canadian Journal of Zoology 90: 999-1014

...just few examples

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
But even if it were the case, it would just be a name; period.
Name is the most important part of description.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Whaaat???
Some blacks can be not black?
Don't tell me that, please!
The very fabric of the Universe is going to collapse!!!!!
If we can't rely in color, then what?
We do rely on colour, you are safe.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 10:54 AM   #170

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Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
This gets deeper than racism alone.

When people put one another into separate groups, use labels and try to define differences.
It is called identity.
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