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Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


View Poll Results: Race, ethnicity or species?
Race 9 32.14%
Ethnicity 18 64.29%
Species 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #181
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If that is all your biological identity than I am not sure in what parallel universe are you living because it is not where rest of us do.
If in spite of your bare denial that is not your identity too like the rest of us, you must be an alternative lifeform of any universe.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #182
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Arras... I must tell you, the electric eel, is not an eel... The king cobra is not a cobra... Vernacular names may be used by scientists but they are not scientific names, so you wasted time mentioning those links...

And cultural identity is not based on biology... Most people know next to nothing of where they stand on biological grounds, an example of that is that they use the term race which is meaningless...
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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:07 AM   #183

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Arras... I must tell you, the electric eel, is not an eel... The king cobra is not a cobra... Vernacular names may be used by scientists but they are not scientific names, so you wasted time mentioning those links...
coldshot, I was newer speaking about "scientific mane". But please go ahead and cite me speaking about "scientific name". Or you actually claim that "scientific name" is only description of nature science ever use?

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And cultural identity is not based on biology... Most people know next to nothing of where they stand on biological grounds, an example of that is that they use the term race which is meaningless...
You are completely wrong.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:44 AM   #184
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coldshot, I was newer speaking about "scientific mane". But please go ahead and cite me speaking about "scientific name". Or you actually claim that "scientific name" is only description of nature science ever use?
[sic]
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You see, they are still scientifically called black. But that is OK, some Blacks can also be light brown
Yup, your post #165 in this same thread.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:48 AM   #185
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coldshot, I was newer speaking about "scientific mane". But please go ahead and cite me speaking about "scientific name". Or you actually claim that "scientific name" is only description of nature science ever use?
well here are pertinent quotes:

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Originally Posted by arras View Post
Colour is one of the more commonly used physical attributes by science when describing nature.

Keep fighting
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Originally Posted by arras View Post
You see, they are still scientifically called black. But that is OK, some Blacks can also be light brown

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Originally Posted by arras View Post
Beckmann, J.P. 2002. Changing dynamics of a population of black bears (Ursus americanus): causes and consequences. Ph.D. dissertation. University of Nevada, Reno

Beckmann, J. P. and J. Berger. 2003a. Using black bears to test ideal-free distribution
models experimentally. Journal of Mammalogy

American Black Bear (Ursa americana Pallas) From: Saunders, D. A. 1988. Adirondack Mammals. State University of New York, College of Environmental Science and Forestry. 216pp. and Sage, R.W., Jr., and S. Simek. 1994. Adirondack Black Bears. State University of New York, College of Environmental Science and Forestry, Environmental Information Series

Pelletier, A., M. E. Obbard, K. Mills, E. J. Howe, F. G. Burrows, B. N. White and C. J. Kyle. 2012. Delineating genetic groupings in continuously distributed species across largely homogeneous landscapes: a study of American black bears (Ursus americanus) in Ontario, Canada. Canadian Journal of Zoology 90: 999-1014

...just few examples

Name is the most important part of description.

We do rely on colour, you are safe.
One way or another all these are attempts to claim that colour is meaningful for scientists but they are using the scientific name because they know colour is meaningless, or next to meaningless, they use the vernacular name because it catches the attention of people that may read their papers or books or whatever...

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You are completely wrong.
I said

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n humans the genetic differences between two black individuals and between a black individual and an asian are, statistically the same, in other words the diversity is illusory

Aeta people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Life of Aborigines second worst on earth - National - www.theage.com.au neither is african, both are black...
you may want to see this:

What Our Genes Tell Us About Race

If you come to Peru you will see the amerindians in the Andes call "gringo" to anyone they see as white... but the white people from Peru use the word "gringo" for anyonw from the United States that is a WASP... We call all Spaniards by that word, but some Spaniards identify themselves as basque or catalonian, among others... We do nto see differences in the british but the british brake themselves into irish, scot, english, welsh and others (I am partially scot and don't see the difference as meaningful)... The Irish even brake into northern and southern (catholic and protestant, affiliated with the UK and independent)... You are Slovakian and for a while your country was Checoslovakia and you shared the land with the Czech but your idea of ethnicity where so strong that you broke into Czech Republic and Slovakia... We say "amerindians" but we have Quechua and Aymara on the Peruvian Andes... Often grouped as a single race by many Peruvians from the coast... We also have the many ethnicities of the Amazon Rainforest... If you go to Africa you will find that the Bantu and Khoisan identify as different races, but you wouldn't tell them appart based on looks alone.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:04 AM   #186

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One way or another all these are attempts to claim that colour is meaningful for scientists but they are using the scientific name because they know colour is meaningless, or next to meaningless, they use the vernacular name because it catches the attention of people that may read their papers or books or whatever...
You can twist it way you like. Fact is I was newer speaking about "scientific name". And fact is scientists use colour as attribute to describe nature. They are not colour-blind, you know.

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you may want to see this:

What Our Genes Tell Us About Race
You mean that human, or animal physiology have nothing to do with genes?
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:11 AM   #187

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[sic] Yup, your post #165 in this same thread.
Where do you see word "scientific name" in the second quote?

"Scientific name" is binomial name and have very specific meaning inside scientific terminology.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:41 AM   #188
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Where do you see word "scientific name" in the second quote?

"Scientific name" is binomial name and have very specific meaning inside scientific terminology.
You are well aware of the fallacious nature of bare denial, right?

That said, any other point about the OP?
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Old November 18th, 2012, 04:18 AM   #189
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You can twist it way you like. Fact is I was newer speaking about "scientific name". And fact is scientists use colour as attribute to describe nature. They are not colour-blind, you know.
But science works for the colour blind... You think that just because you are daltonic you cannot be a biologist? You have yet to prove that scientists use colour to describe nature, so far you have only shown that scientists are willing to use vernacular names but vernacular names are nto created by scientists, they are created by common people... YOu need to explain how "being scientifically called" is different than "they have the scientific name" when the verb "called" and the verb "named" can be exchanged.

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mean that human, or animal physiology have nothing to do with genes?
Human physiology has nothing to do with race... Human races are a social illusion... Dog races and cat races on the other hand... (Unless you use the word race for a competition where the goal is to cover a distance in less time than other competitors).
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Old November 18th, 2012, 08:22 AM   #190
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You can twist it way you like. Fact is I was newer speaking about "scientific name". And fact is scientists use colour as attribute to describe nature. They are not colour-blind, you know.


You mean that human, or animal physiology have nothing to do with genes?
An irrelevant fallacious straw man is actually a poor response for such relevant hard evidence so timely shared with us.
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