Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


View Poll Results: Race, ethnicity or species?
Race 9 32.14%
Ethnicity 18 64.29%
Species 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 19th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #211
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargon of Akkad View Post
Can you show where I've suggested I hate other races? I thought not.



Me too, given that I didn't say that. You're not one to shy away from a straw man though, evidently.





Please choose a side and stick to it, sylla. Your constant flip-flopping makes me wonder if you're running for office.

Do certain groups of humans not share distinctive physical traits, sylla? Do the French look like the Chinese? Do the native Americans look like sub-Saharan Africans? Do the Eskimos look like Indians?

Do you know why they don't? Because they are of groups that share certain distinctive physical traits that are not the same as other groups. That's all race is. Is it really that hard?



How predictably unenlightening!



It's lucky that we're only talking about superficial physical characteristics then, isn't it? Nobody has made any kind of judgements about intellect, skills, or physical ability. You're the one who brought that up. Why did you? We're just talking about appearance.

It speaks volumes about your own insecurities that you need to bring this up when we are simply talking about the way people look.
"Insecurities"

A hilarious joke indeed; congratulations.

Just remember I was not the loser who opened a thread explicitly just to harass another Historumite.

Last edited by sylla1; November 19th, 2012 at 03:26 PM.
sylla1 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 19th, 2012, 03:38 PM   #212

Silkroad's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: USA
Posts: 158

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
One swallow does not make spring


While common is indeed based on come on, it have nothing to do with agree
You're just being difficult now. Must be that thing common people do.
Silkroad is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #213
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 179

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
I am absolutely sure. They use these things every day. I know few of them.
They drive trams, busses or such?


Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
So if those "racial differences" are not called "racial differences" but let say "different racials" it does not make you recognize them? You just claimed they are skin deep and you identified them as "so called racial differences". Well call them as you want, it does not matter to me so long as they are "skin deep"
You really have a problem with your reading comprehension... Alleged differences between races are actually skin deep characteristics, therefore they do not qualify as real differences between races, just as arbitraryly chosen characteristics


Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
I have to disappoint you. While they do indeed vary, they vary small enough for anybody to recognize them on sight. Women breasts also vary, yet nobody fails to recognize woman, when one see her. Safe few unfortunate exceptions. But exceptions reinforce rule.
That is like comparing "tomorrow" and "smiles"... The variations in which individuals belong to what race from the perspective of the racist individuals is a cateogrization problem that makes the category "race" meaningless... That is nothing like the variations between female breasts (since the categorization "female breast" is not problematic at all... and... You do not recognize a woman from her breasts... Man boobs do not make those who have them any less virile)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
That is not surprising given psychology is not material
The word was physiology, not psychology, do not confuse them...

Physiology Physiology

Psychology Psychology

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
And I gave you definition of race from online etymology dictionary. Pretty surprising for something that does not exist eh? And if you still in doubt, you can always go back to very good definition of race silla1 provided so kindly. And which I can't but happily recommend. And you can not suspect him of sympathy
You want to go there? Ok, here, things that do not exist:

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Online Etymology Dictionary

Yes, the word race exists, so does the words leprechaun, goblin, unicorn, nymph, satyr, angel, devil, demon, mermaid, siren, harpy, god, norn and so on... But no one uses the existence of those words to claim that what they refer to is real...
coldshot is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #214

arras's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: Slovakia
Posts: 14,054

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkroad View Post
You're just being difficult now. Must be that thing common people do.
Common does not mean simple, so you might be right
arras is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #215

arras's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: Slovakia
Posts: 14,054

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
They drive trams, busses or such?
How does use of any form of public transport requires people to drive them themselves? That would turn it automatically to individual transport

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
You really have a problem with your reading comprehension... Alleged differences between races are actually skin deep characteristics, therefore they do not qualify as real differences between races, just as arbitraryly chosen characteristics
No, my comprehension is perfectly fine. Declaring something been skin deep and not existing are two mutually exclusive things. Nothing is not skin deep. It does not have any depth at all. In your statement you recognised that there are "skin deep differences" which are "so called racial". Well as I said, does not matter how they are called to me as long as they "are".

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
That is like comparing "tomorrow" and "smiles"... The variations in which individuals belong to what race from the perspective of the racist individuals is a cateogrization problem that makes the category "race" meaningless... That is nothing like the variations between female breasts (since the categorization "female breast" is not problematic at all... and... You do not recognize a woman from her breasts... Man boobs do not make those who have them any less virile)
I can assure you most people have no problem to recognise different races when they see them. And those which do most probably have problem to recognise two sexes as well. For problem is most probably in their eyesight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
The word was physiology, not psychology, do not confuse them...
Ah yes, my bad, I apologise. Well then racial differences must be deeper than skin as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
You want to go there? Ok, here, things that do not exist:
...

Yes, the word race exists, so does the words leprechaun, goblin, unicorn, nymph, satyr, angel, devil, demon, mermaid, siren, harpy, god, norn and so on... But no one uses the existence of those words to claim that what they refer to is real...
True, than you have to be satisfied with definition of race provided by silla1. It's good definition, you can't go wrong with it
arras is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #216
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 179

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
How does use of any form of public transport requires people to drive them themselves? That would turn it automatically to individual transport
These forms of transport are driven by people who are hired to drive them... They are public because the people going in the seats are clients to the driver... But find a driver of these vehicles who is colour blind and ask him or her how the person got the job despite colour semaphores and how he or she handles them... The colour blind clients o not have to worry about the semaphores, they just rely on the driver

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
No, my comprehension is perfectly fine. Declaring something been skin deep and not existing are two mutually exclusive things. Nothing is not skin deep. It does not have any depth at all. In your statement you recognised that there are "skin deep differences" which are "so called racial". Well as I said, does not matter how they are called to me as long as they "are".
Skin-deep differences are not an evidence for the existence of human races because you can find them even between close cousins and siblings

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
I can assure you most people have no problem to recognise different races when they see them. And those which do most probably have problem to recognise two sexes as well. For problem is most probably in their eyesight.
People recognize two differente sexes due to instinct... But the social construct of race depends on upbringing...

I will repeat what I said before and you could not give an answer to:

In humans the genetic differences between two black individuals and between a black individual and an asian are, statistically the same, in other words the diversity is illusory

Aeta_peoples Aeta_peoples
and Life of Aborigines second worst on earth - National - www.theage.com.au neither is african, both are black...

What Our Genes Tell Us About Race

If you come to Peru you will see the amerindians in the Andes call "gringo" to anyone they see as white... but the white people from Peru use the word "gringo" for anyonw from the United States that is a WASP... We call all Spaniards by that word, but some Spaniards identify themselves as basque or catalonian, among others... We do nto see differences in the british but the british brake themselves into irish, scot, english, welsh and others (I am partially scot and don't see the difference as meaningful)... The Irish even brake into northern and southern (catholic and protestant, affiliated with the UK and independent)... You are Slovakian and for a while your country was Checoslovakia and you shared the land with the Czech but your idea of ethnicity where so strong that you broke into Czech Republic and Slovakia... We say "amerindians" but we have Quechua and Aymara on the Peruvian Andes... Often grouped as a single race by many Peruvians from the coast... We also have the many ethnicities of the Amazon Rainforest... If you go to Africa you will find that the Bantu and Khoisan identify as different races, but you wouldn't tell them appart based on looks alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
Ah yes, my bad, I apologise. Well then racial differences must be deeper than skin as well.
The notion of deeper-than-skin differences between supgroups of humanity called "races" is already proved a mistake by the previous link and examples...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
True, than you have to be satisfied with definition of race provided by silla1. It's good definition, you can't go wrong with it
I use the following definition of "raza" and the word "race" I treat as its English equivalent:

Real Academia Española. Diccionario Usual.
coldshot is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #217

arras's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: Slovakia
Posts: 14,054

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
These forms of transport are driven by people who are hired to drive them...
I do not care by whom are they driven, I was speaking about people who use them, not who drive them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
Skin-deep differences are not an evidence for the existence of human races because you can find them even between close cousins and siblings
You know, cousins can be mulattoes of different races. If your uncle or ant married person of different race than your father or mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
People recognize two differente sexes due to instinct... But the social construct of race depends on upbringing...
Not sure how you recognize sexes in your cultures but here we do not need instinct. All we need is to look at somebody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
I will repeat what I said before and you could not give an answer to:

In humans the genetic differences between two black individuals and between a black individual and an asian are, statistically the same, in other words the diversity is illusory
Completely and utterly irrelevant. Size of statistical differences between genes does not matter, what matter is effect of these differences.

96% of genes of chimpanzee in closest ZOO is the same as yours. Do you need "instinct" to tell the difference?

Genetic difference between you and your sister is close to zero. Yet I doubt your mother ever mistaken her for you.

There are just 7 genetic differences between all existing breeds of dogs. It's less than between human races. I guess now that you finally know it, you will be unable to tell difference between Pit Bull and Chihuahua because you are not racist, are you? And that makes two things with people: blind and politically strait. Oh and it enhances their instincts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
The notion of deeper-than-skin differences between supgroups of humanity called "races" is already proved a mistake by the previous link and examples...
Than your link is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
I use the following definition of "raza" and the word "race" I treat as its English equivalent:

Real Academia Española. Diccionario Usual.
I do not speak Spanish.
arras is offline  
Old November 20th, 2012, 03:55 AM   #218
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 179

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
I do not care by whom are they driven, I was speaking about people who use them, not who drive them.
The people who use them do not need to take a look at the colour semaphores... So... Bite your tongue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
You know, cousins can be mulattoes of different races. If your uncle or ant married person of different race than your father or mother.
What about siblings? You really are racist!

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
Not sure how you recognize sexes in your cultures but here we do not need instinct. All we need is to look at somebody.
Wow, your inability to comprehend is unfathomable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
Completely and utterly irrelevant. Size of statistical differences between genes does not matter, what matter is effect of these differences.

96% of genes of chimpanzee in closest ZOO is the same as yours. Do you need "instinct" to tell the difference?

Genetic difference between you and your sister is close to zero. Yet I doubt your mother ever mistaken her for you.

There are just 7 genetic differences between all existing breeds of dogs. It's less than between human races. I guess now that you finally know it, you will be unable to tell difference between Pit Bull and Chihuahua because you are not racist, are you? And that makes two things with people: blind and politically strait. Oh and it enhances their instincts.
You have completely misunderstood the point... Its not about how much genetic differences there are but about how much of these genetic differences are equally different between people you should not expect to be genetically different...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
Than your link is wrong.
L0L... I bring you evidence, things professionals claim and all you can do is say "your link is wrong"... You are really dogmatic about human races being a meaningful word...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arras View Post
I do not speak Spanish.
Sad thing...
coldshot is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
ethnicity, race, terminology


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Regarding Ethnicity Mischef_Managed Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 10 December 14th, 2011 02:46 AM
Byzantine army terminology gordopolis Medieval and Byzantine History 30 June 29th, 2011 11:54 AM
Military Terminology History Chick War and Military History 17 August 31st, 2010 05:47 PM
Different Faces of One Ethnicity Jhangora General History 20 June 24th, 2010 11:38 AM
Norwegian vs English terminology Kristin History Help 14 November 13th, 2009 12:16 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.