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Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


View Poll Results: Should there be separation of church and state?
Yes 50 89.29%
No 2 3.57%
Neither 4 7.14%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 19th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #31

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorian View Post
Well, question there becomes whether schools are supposed to be instilling positive social values into students. And it they are, then whose values?
True. Schools are expected already to do too much in raising someone else' kid.
Schools/teachers should not be a parent to the student body. Besides,
any education would come down to what the sole principal wants his/her
teachers to preach. Scary.
Schools need to stay out of setting the religious barometer of kids. If
parents want a waterfall of religious teaching for their kids, put them in
private christian schools.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #32
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A 'godless heathen' educated at private or public expense remains a 'godless heathen'.


In your America's case, nothing personal intended-they have denied and disregarded the traditions which once made them strong. For example faith-tradition-character independence-democratic institutions-have now been substituted with socialistic concepts of letting large government dictate to them what will be or is best for them. Or what they should receive in compensation for it's continued existence and perpetuation of power. Poor dupes.

Some of the worst offenders of this clap-trap are your unions. And in particular the ones involving education and educators. My advice? Criminalize all your unions which are an affront to the basic premises of that magnificent document you and yours once called a 'constitution'. Your name sakes would approve.

But then again they were founding patriots. And 200 plus years later that's no longer relevant eh. Well all governments decay and yours like Rome is no exception. Check your Mommsen for verification. Tragedy really. That once bright beacon, beckoning in the fog, from the distance, has like the rest of them, become the 'whore' of reality. Yours was such a great inspiration once.

Here in Skyrim. The idea of letting someone or government dictate what will be your individual liberties went out when Ulfric the Rebel lost his head.

Last edited by Dragonborn; November 19th, 2012 at 11:46 PM.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #33

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Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
Because whether we like it or not, the state cannot be indifferent to the church or to religion. The state is dependent upon religious presuppositions, even if it takes the stance of religious neutrality. If you have a state where the vast majority of its citizen profess a certain religious viewpoint, a government can't be indifferent towards that and will have to adapt its policies according to those sensibilities. Even in supposedly secularist countries, their religious inheritance still has a considerable impact on the political culture.

So even if formally church and state are separate, informally they're still deeply connected on many levels.
The separation of the church and the state is anchored on the non-use of the government coffers to support any religious denomination, and while it is true that they have certain sphere of influences with one another due to the fact that the secular government is composed of the citizens who can be a member of a major religion of a country, yet, there is the fact of the separation of the church and the state for as long as the state has a civil and secular government.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #34

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Could you please explain what exactly you mean by the seperation of Church and state? It seems to me to be a rather vague term that is subject to liberal interpretation.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 03:22 AM   #35

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
The Church of England is the established Church in England.
Seven Bishops (the Lords Spiritual) sit in the House of Lords.
Since the Catholics and the Jews were given relief and the Lords Day Observance Act was repealed, the Church has no real affect on life for those uninterested in it.
England is probably nowadays the most agnostic nation in Europe. As Blair said "British politics doesn't do God". So what's the problem?
He actually said (or rather his spin doctor did) "We don't do God" meaning Blair himself, and guess what? He was lying!

Is Britain more agnostic or atheist? I'd say the latter, but then thats my own bias kicking in, I suspect.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 03:41 AM   #36

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Originally Posted by astafjevs View Post
He actually said (or rather his spin doctor did) "We don't do God" meaning Blair himself, and guess what? He was lying!

Is Britain more agnostic or atheist? I'd say the latter, but then thats my own bias kicking in, I suspect.
Silly of me--it was Campbell, but confirmed by Blair. Of course Blair was lying. He probably converted to Roman Catholicism with an eye to a job in the Vatican--Pope, probably.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #37

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Absolutely.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #38

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonborn
In your America's case, nothing personal intended-they have denied and disregarded the traditions which once made them strong. For example faith-tradition-character independence-democratic institutions-have now been substituted with socialistic concepts of letting large government dictate to them what will be or is best for them. Or what they should receive in compensation for it's continued existence and perpetuation of power. Poor dupes.
I'm not sure what it's like in Skyrim but in the US we started reforming our education with national standards after we found that Americans were falling behind the rest of the world in math and science.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 10:24 AM   #39

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In France, Church and State have been separated for more than 100 years (1905).
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Old November 20th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #40

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Yes!
Secularism is one of the most important parts of a society! Most* countries that have adopted such a stance on the relationship between religion and state have only grown stronger as a nation because.


*because, granted, there are some countries that have done fine either way, but more have evolved due to secularism.
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