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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:00 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Olustee View Post
Frankly, I find some of these posts mind-boggling. It's true that historical judgments are subject to change with the passage of time and new information. But there are limits to this. How in heavens name is it even conceivable that Hitler could ever be generally viewed in a positive light?!?! In this case, it seems like saying "well, things might look different in 500 years" is an abdication of common sense. By this logic, is it possible that someone like Charles Manson might one day be regarded in a favorable light? Someone here suggested that Hitler might be viewed favorably because WWII helped bring down the colonial empires. But isn't that like viewing an infamous rapist favorably if his rapes lead to the passage of strict laws punishing future rapists?
Yup, emphasis is mine.

Just for the record, exactly who and where did "suggest" here that [sic]
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"Hitler might be viewed favorably because WWII helped bring down the colonial empires"
???
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:21 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Olustee View Post
Frankly, I find some of these posts mind-boggling. It's true that historical judgments are subject to change with the passage of time and new information. But there are limits to this. How in heavens name is it even conceivable that Hitler could ever be generally viewed in a positive light?!?!...
Quite simple really.

Unless we use education to continually highlight what the Nazis did and stop revisionists 'spinning' a positive side to Nazism, it will happen.

Just type Nazi Revisionist History into Google.

Kids read some of the stuff that's there, and believe it. Adults teach it to their kids and friends and believe it.

It's hardly inconceivable to think that if it is allowed to run unopposed, that it may become accepted as fact.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #93

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Originally Posted by HBT View Post
Quite simple really.

Unless we use education to continually highlight what the Nazis did and stop revisionists 'spinning' a positive side to Nazism, it will happen.

Just type Nazi Revisionist History into Google.

Kids read some of the stuff that's there, and believe it. Adults teach it to their kids and friends and believe it.

It's hardly inconceivable to think that if it is allowed to run unopposed, that it may become accepted as fact.
It's not just the works of revisionists. During the time of Vikings, the Vikings were viewed as evil incarnate to many of their Christian victims. The passage of time has not changed the content of their behavior, only changed the context that we view it.

I'm sure if you were to ask a 10th century monk about how the Vikings would be viewed by future historians he could equally ask: "How could anyone possibly view the Vikings in a positive light? They ransacked the house of god and slaughtered defenseless peaceful people?"

The answer of course is time.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #94
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It's not just the works of revisionists. During the time of Vikings, the Vikings were viewed as evil incarnate to many of their Christian victims. The passage of time has not changed the content of their behavior, only changed the context that we view it.

I'm sure if you were to ask a 10th century monk about how the Vikings would be viewed by future historians he could equally ask: "How could anyone possibly view the Vikings in a positive light? They ransacked the house of god and slaughtered defenseless peaceful people?"

The answer of course is time.
Very true, I said a similar thing about the Romans in an earlier post.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #95

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Very true, I said a similar thing about the Romans in an earlier post.
Yep, that's another good example.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #96

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I guess a part of this question, the basic part, is does evil exist?

Hitler also didn't see Jews as people. They were a virus. So is it immoral to kill someone who isn't a person?
....There is the evil......does not matter how times change , to view a people as not human , and to liken them to a virus , that is evil
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Old December 7th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #97
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The Vikings (Norse) were a whole nation with extant offspring nations and huge demographic influence over other countries.

The same could be said about the Romans-

At the risk of overstating the obvious, any general ethical qualification of whole nations (either "good", "bad" or otherwise) is inherently a flawed hasty generalization.

And of course, pretending to compare the perception on whole nations with the ethical status of single individuals like Herr Hitler (the OP) couldn't be any more a faulty analogy.

Last edited by sylla1; December 7th, 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robespierre
I guess a part of this question, the basic part, is does evil exist?

Hitler also didn't see Jews as people. They were a virus. So is it immoral to kill someone who isn't a person?
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....There is the evil......does not matter how times change , to view a people as not human , and to liken them to a virus , that is evil
Indeed; the objective status as person of any human individual from any group slaughtered by Herr Hitler & co. (Polish, Russians, Jews, Gypsies or otherwise) is a fact well beyond the petty subjective perceptions of Herr Hitler and any other fanatic; mere bizarre beliefs couldn't be used as any excuse for homicide, even less genocide.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
...At the risk of overstating the obvious, any general ethical qualification of whole nations (either "good", "bad" or otherwise) is inherently a flawed hasty generalization.

And of course, pretending to compare the perception on whole nations with the ethical status of single individuals like Herr Hitler (the OP) couldn't be any more a faulty analogy.
Nations inevitably act as they have been directed by their leaders. If they choose not to, they rebel.

Whilst there were undoubtedly a great number of Germans who opposed Hitler and the Nazis during their rise to power (and indeed a large number who attempted and continued to oppose him throughout his reign of terror) the German Nation; whether or not they individually or collectively knew or chose to ignore what was happening; did not rebel against the Nazis.

Using a nation to illustrate how peoples' perceptions of an 'evil' act has changed as it has become a distant memory is, I'm afraid, not a false analogy.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #100

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
The Vikings (Norse) were a whole nation with extant offspring nations and huge demographic influence over other countries.

The same could be said about the Romans-

At the risk of overstating the obvious, any general ethical qualification of whole nations (either "good", "bad" or otherwise) is inherently a flawed hasty generalization.

And of course, pretending to compare the perception on whole nations with the ethical status of single individuals like Herr Hitler (the OP) couldn't be any more a faulty analogy.
I will state the obvious as well. You have no clue how Hitler will be viewed by historians in 1,000 years. It could very well become to be the case that in the future Hitler is not viewed as evil incarnate . . . similar to how we no longer view the Vikings as evil incarnate, hence the analogy.

I was not stating that the Vikings were actually evil incarnate . . . . I was speaking about the perception of Christian monks during the Viking era.

At the risk of overstating the obvious . . . I am not a 10th century Christian monk Sylla. Though I think you have a valid point should anyone ever invent a time machine that allows you to meet someone with such a perception so you can tell them they are wrong.
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