Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 7th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #11

Zarin's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,465

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodius View Post
As a big fan of the comic playwright Aristophanes, I particularly like his cameo in Plato's "Symposium" (which is a really fun text), and the little story he tells about love. According to Plato's Aristophanes, humans were originally created as strange creatures with two heads, four legs, four arms and two bodies - they were joined back-to-back in a sort of cartwheel formation. However, when these "perfect" humans rebelled against Zeus, he cut them all in two, creating modern style humans. The origin of love is our longing to find our partner, literally our "other half", the person we would have been connected to if Zeus hadn't cut us apart. Some of these funny early humans were made up of two men, some were made up of two women, and some were made up of a man and a woman, which explains why some people look for same-sex partners and other people look for opposite sex partners.

Here's an artist's impression of what one of Aristophanes' proto-humans would have looked like:

Click the image to open in full size.
If you look at this illustration as a two dimensional object, you are actually looking at an octopus (or spider). An eight legged creature. Could the inspiration for this creation mythos have come from the sea?
Zarin is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 7th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #12

Clodius's Avatar
Theomachos
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,699
Blog Entries: 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarin View Post
If you look at this illustration as a two dimensional object, you are actually looking at an octopus (or spider). An eight legged creature. Could the inspiration for this creation mythos have come from the sea?
Very possibly. Or it could be just a deliberately silly story - after all, Plato was putting these words in the mouth of a comedian! But, even though it's a silly story, I still think it's quite a beautiful one.
Clodius is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #13
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Pax juxta probitatem
Posts: 1,621
Blog Entries: 14

Analogies :-) Socrates gave an analogy to medicine, "the philosopher cures the mind while the doctor cures the body". In another he compares the mind to a bird cage where knowledge is like birds, fluttering. You try to reach for one thought and catch the wrong one. Plato got his name because of his large forehead, and he can be considered the father of modern western Universities, through founding his own academy.

Plato
John Paul is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 11:05 AM   #14

Brisieis's Avatar
Historian
¤ Member of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Sep 2011
From: Egotistical.Apes.Ruining.This.Habitat
Posts: 17,202
Blog Entries: 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoryOMore View Post
The simile of the cave has led me to some ideas related to free will and the question of why pain could exist in a world with a God. Basically, as the three-dimensional people accept the two-dimensional shadows as real, there may be a whole range of dimensions of which humans can only discern a limited number. What we think of as free will may be very restricted compared to what may be available in some of the higher dimensions. Similarly, what we consider painful may be only an annoyance compared to what is possible at higher levels.
That is an interesting interpretation, Rory.
Brisieis is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #15
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Pax juxta probitatem
Posts: 1,621
Blog Entries: 14

Did Plato write "Only the dead have seen the end of war" ? (beginning of Ridley the movie "Black Hawk Down", Ridley Scott 2001). MacArthur use of the quotation in his famous speech '62 . Come to that, most Americans, ex military, I met in Afghanistan talked about Alexander every day, is the subject taught in US military schools?
John Paul is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 03:36 PM   #16
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Romania
Posts: 3,207

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Paul View Post
^ ^ Aha maybe I'll try this without looking. It's to do with form. I read this so I should know. If people stay in a cave and there are shadows in the cave, that's their reality. If one of them goes outside and tells the others what's out there, do they believe him? Thanks and yes that allegorical text is interesting.
What human faculty is involved in the act of contemplation, and which is the force that draws someone from the realm of the shadows to theoria?
Ficino is online now  
Old December 7th, 2012, 04:16 PM   #17
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Pax juxta probitatem
Posts: 1,621
Blog Entries: 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ficino View Post
What human faculty is involved in the act of contemplation, and which is the force that draws someone from the realm of the shadows to theoria?
I haven't fully understood The Republic, but for the first I'd say the reasoning brain. And the second, freedom. I'd think a philosopher is like a prisoner freed from the cave, who learns that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all. He understands the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows. Theoria (Greek): contemplation

How's that for a student, you'll know I stated this right from my first posts. But if anyone has to, or wants to learn Plato and Philosophy it seems we came to the right place.

Last edited by John Paul; December 7th, 2012 at 04:27 PM.
John Paul is offline  
Old December 7th, 2012, 04:35 PM   #18
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Romania
Posts: 3,207

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Paul View Post
I haven't fully understood The Republic, but for the first I'd say the reasoning brain. And the second, freedom. I'd think a philosopher is like a prisoner freed from the cave, who learns that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all. He understands the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows. Theoria (Greek): contemplation
I think that "reasoning brain" is a notion unknown to Plato, and my question was in the context of Platonic philosophy. Freedom is rather the effect of true knowledge (episteme), so I don't think that it could be the force which draws to it.
Ficino is online now  
Old December 8th, 2012, 01:39 AM   #19
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: Pax juxta probitatem
Posts: 1,621
Blog Entries: 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ficino View Post
I think that "reasoning brain" is a notion unknown to Plato, and my question was in the context of Platonic philosophy. Freedom is rather the effect of true knowledge (episteme), so I don't think that it could be the force which draws to it.
Thank you for that, whatever it was. Plato for beginners, moving on, if like me anyone else is new to Philosophy, are you learning in, or out of formal education? Which books would you read or have you read. Robert Cavalier's is a good choice. For Beginners Books - Plato For Beginners
or for UK

PLATO FOR BEGINNERS For Beginners Steerforth Press: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Cavalier, Eric Lurio: Books
PLATO FOR BEGINNERS For Beginners Steerforth Press: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Cavalier, Eric Lurio: Books

John Paul is offline  
Old December 8th, 2012, 02:41 AM   #20
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2012
From: Romania
Posts: 3,207

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Paul View Post
Thank you for that, whatever it was. Plato for beginners, moving on, if like me anyone else is new to Philosophy, are you learning in, or out of formal education? Which books would you read or have you read. Robert Cavalier's is a good choice. For Beginners Books - Plato For Beginners
or for UK PLATO FOR BEGINNERS For Beginners Steerforth Press: Amazon.co.uk: Robert Cavalier, Eric Lurio: Books
I am a Philosophy teacher by profession, and Platonic philosophy is one of my favourites. I didn't read that book, so I can't comment on it, but I can recommend you e.g. the following books available online: A.E. Taylor's "Plato" Plato The Man And His Work : Taylor,A.E. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive, and Léon Robin's "Platon" (I don't know about any English translation, but you may download the French text from) Léon Robin - Platon ( EPUB et PDF gratuits ).
Ficino is online now  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
beginners, plato


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Books on Alexandros III for beginners duccen History Book Reviews 4 September 9th, 2012 04:26 PM
Plato described the Matrix... or not? Thessalonian Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 4 August 20th, 2011 11:39 AM
How did Plato do it? Coriolis History Book Reviews 14 February 22nd, 2011 02:45 PM
The republic by plato ~+Invisible-College+~ Ancient History 3 May 20th, 2010 09:43 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.