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Old December 8th, 2012, 03:13 AM   #21

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I agree on those books, and would think that A.E.Taylor's is the most accessible book on the subject (it doesn't matter that it is quite old). One might also add, form among works in English, W.K.C Guthrie's works on Socrates (very lucid) and Plato in the Cambridge History of Greek Philosophy. A word of warning: Plato is a difficult author because he never states anything directly, but presents his ideas either through dialogues or in figurative form (in myths etc.)
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Old December 8th, 2012, 05:08 AM   #22
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I am a Philosophy teacher by profession, and Platonic philosophy is one of my favourites. I didn't read that book, so I can't comment on it, but I can recommend you e.g. the following books available online: A.E. Taylor's "Plato" Plato The Man And His Work : Taylor,A.E. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive, and Léon Robin's "Platon" (I don't know about any English translation, but you may download the French text from) Léon Robin - Platon ( EPUB et PDF gratuits ).
Then we are priviliged and thank you for taking time. It would be useful to have the books (seems to be free) you recommended and better to read checked and academic sources. Thank you.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #23

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Did Plato write "Only the dead have seen the end of war" ? (beginning of Ridley the movie "Black Hawk Down", Ridley Scott 2001). MacArthur use of the quotation in his famous speech '62 . Come to that, most Americans, ex military, I met in Afghanistan talked about Alexander every day, is the subject taught in US military schools?
It would be interesting to have some feedback on what those Americans
"talked about" concerning Alexander. Might I inquire as to what some of this conversation concerned? Very curious.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 10:17 AM   #24

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I'm pretty sure Plato never wrote 'only the dead have seen the end of war', I know his works very well and have never encountered such a saying; I would need to a specific reference to believe it!
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Old December 10th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #25
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Hence my question, Linschoten. Note that while the attribution isn't ours, one of the people who attributed this to Plato was General Douglas MacArthur in his Farewell Speech (West Point): "But always in our ears ring the ominous words of Plato, that wisest of all philosophers: "Only the dead have seen the end of war." Source: General Douglas MacArthur's Farewell Speech to West Point . The line is also used by the Imperial War Museum and attributed to Plato. I wondered whether anyone here could confirm that line wasn't ever said by Plato.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #26

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Wonderful, I'm always up for a discussion on Plato.

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What human faculty is involved in the act of contemplation, and which is the force that draws someone from the realm of the shadows to theoria?
That would be the Nous, or Intellect.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #27

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Hence my question, Linschoten. Note that while the attribution isn't ours, one of the people who attributed this to Plato was General Douglas MacArthur in his Farewell Speech (West Point): "But always in our ears ring the ominous words of Plato, that wisest of all philosophers: "Only the dead have seen the end of war." Source: General Douglas MacArthur's Farewell Speech to West Point . The line is also used by the Imperial War Museum and attributed to Plato. I wondered whether anyone here could confirm that line wasn't ever said by Plato.
I have done a search on this, and I can find no mention of the saying from before 1922, when George Santayana used it in his 'Soliloquies' without attributing it to anyone else. As I said, I have never come across it in Plato (I have taught university courses on Plato), and I think that this is almost certainly a mistake. Unless someone can come up with a reference!
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Old December 10th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Zarin View Post
It would be interesting to have some feedback on what those Americans
"talked about" concerning Alexander. Might I inquire as to what some of this conversation concerned? Very curious.
You might, and there's nothing much in it nor much to be inferred, other than military tactics and management theory. During conversations with managers some of whom had been to West Point, we were reminded not to push our people and budgets too far by direct references to Alexander III. The local AO is rich in Alexandrian history. My admittedly naive sounding question was; is Alexandra taught at West Point.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #29

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My admittedly naive sounding question was; is Alexandra taught at West Point.
I would presume Alexander the Great is taught in West Point, as with many other great military commanders and theorists.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #30
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Thank you Belloc. And that's a distinguished lineage; from Alexander of Macedon to Aristotle, Plato and Socrates.

If I may ask Historum; Is Plato so prominent in philosophy because he is considered a reliable and principal source and because of his Dialogues? or the Academy? Plato's dialogues portray Socrates, his mentor who "didn't write things down because he preferred oratory" and left little in the way of scriptures. What do you think of Socrates?
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