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Old December 9th, 2012, 01:42 PM   #21

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Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
It is simple cause and effect, many one-parent families result from poorly educated women having children whom they are unable to support, and having to live on welfare, or work part-time in ill-paid jobs. They are bound to be living on very limited means ('poverty' is a relative term). Increasing welfare payments doesn't help much, and isn't practical in any case in the present economic circumstances; indeed, the problem is partly a result of the availabilty of welfare, which saves people from having to take responsibility for their own actions.
Unless, like this mother-of-ten, your boyfriend happens to be a wealthy descendant of the Duke of Wellington:
BBC News - Duke of Wellington descendant saves benefit cheat partner from jail
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Old December 9th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #22

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Unless, like this mother-of-ten, your boyfriend happens to be a wealthy descendant of the Duke of Wellington:
BBC News - Duke of Wellington descendant saves benefit cheat partner from jail
It's all okay though, they won't be punished because he's loaded enough to pay back the money no problem. British justice does it again. It makes me proud.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #23
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What is the relationship between poverty and single parent families?
Maybe there's none.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #24

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I remember the days when most American families had one wage-earner, and that was enough to support the family. Nowadays, a family requires two wage-earners to live the same lifestyle they used to be able to with one. Our standard of living has plummeted, and nobody seems to notice...
The same can be said over this side of the pond, the price of petrol has rocketed over the last 5 years as well as food and heating costs. Nobody's wages have gone up it seems that I have noticed standards of living that seem to have got a lot worse as there are less jobs to go around.
Sometimes for reasons that women have to bring up children on there own though no fault of their own. Victims of cruelty or violent drunken fathers or even widows or husbands that had committed adultery must find it hard to make a living and keep their children fed and clothed.
I have often wondered how anyone can afford to live in the south east of England on my wages, let alone raise a family on their own.
Single parents include men as well, and I have seen some men struggle and keep a full time job as well as pay for child care.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #25
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Maybe there's none.
What financial effect does it have when a single parent chooses not to work, but instead relies on assistance from the government? I would think that there is a vicious circle in play here. Relative poverty combined with a safety net can cause single family homes. Single family homes can perpetuate poverty. I don't know, tell me where I am wrong with that thinking.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #26

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Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
What financial effect does it have when a single parent chooses not to work, but instead relies on assistance from the government? I would think that there is a vicious circle in play here. Relative poverty combined with a safety net can cause single family homes. Single family homes can perpetuate poverty. I don't know, tell me where I am wrong with that thinking.

[I]t is now more lucrative – in the form of actual disposable income – to sit, do nothing, and collect various welfare entitlements, than to work. This is graphically, and very painfully confirmed, in the below chart from Gary Alexander, Secretary of Public Welfare, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (a state best known for its broke capital Harrisburg). As explained by Alexander, “the single mom is better off earning gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045.“

In other words, a single parent making $29000 a year takes home more money with benefits and salary than a single parent making $69000 a year.

This chart, created by the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, explains the calculation:

It Doesn’t Pay to Work | Power Line

Last edited by unclefred; December 10th, 2012 at 04:04 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #27
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What financial effect does it have when a single parent chooses not to work, but instead relies on assistance from the government? I would think that there is a vicious circle in play here. Relative poverty combined with a safety net can cause single family homes. Single family homes can perpetuate poverty. I don't know, tell me where I am wrong with that thinking.
I didn't say anything was wrong with the assumption, it's probably what happens in some cases. But I don't think single parent families constitute a perfectly homogeneous group with a fixed trajectory, so it's hard for me to conceive that being a single parent inevitably lead to poverty. My mother raised me alone and I never lacked anything, and I saw kids at school who had two parents who sent them to school with rags for clothes.
It would be too easy to say that two parents can ask for social assistance and make poverty a standard for their kids and grand-kids.
In my mind, just the fact of being a single parent home does not create or perpetuate poverty as much as other factors, be it bad individual choices, the lack of choices (as in being victim of your surroundings), or plain bad luck. But as you're probably aware, it's very hard to generalize because there are so many variables to take into account.
In that mind frame, we can question ourselves forever as to who kills the man who smokes; the cigarette or his use of the cigarette.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #28
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[I]t is now more lucrative – in the form of actual disposable income – to sit, do nothing, and collect various welfare entitlements, than to work. This is graphically, and very painfully confirmed, in the below chart from Gary Alexander, Secretary of Public Welfare, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania (a state best known for its broke capital Harrisburg). As explained by Alexander, “the single mom is better off earning gross income of $29,000 with $57,327 in net income & benefits than to earn gross income of $69,000 with net income and benefits of $57,045.“

In other words, a single parent making $29000 a year takes home more money with benefits and salary than a single parent making $69000 a year.

This chart, created by the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, explains the calculation:

It Doesn’t Pay to Work | Power Line
I know where I live, $69,000 is a very good salary. It is very disheartening to see statistics such as this.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #29

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Originally Posted by BrowniesRule View Post
I didn't say anything was wrong with the assumption, it's probably what happens in some cases. But I don't think single parent families constitute a perfectly homogeneous group with a fixed trajectory, so it's hard for me to conceive that being a single parent inevitably lead to poverty. My mother raised me alone and I never lacked anything, and I saw kids at school who had two parents who sent them to school with rags for clothes.
It would be too easy to say that two parents can ask for social assistance and make poverty a standard for their kids and grand-kids.
In my mind, just the fact of being a single parent home does not create or perpetuate poverty as much as other factors, be it bad individual choices, the lack of choices (as in being victim of your surroundings), or plain bad luck. But as you're probably aware, it's very hard to generalize because there are so many variables to take into account.
In that mind frame, we can question ourselves forever as to who kills the man who smokes; the cigarette or his use of the cigarette.
Very well said it is a complex issue and there are single parents who do well and those less fortunate. I suppose it is an issue that is worth discussing as long as the thread is not a stick to beat one parent families over the head with, which I am sure Virgil did not have in mind. At the end of the day given the dire financial circumstances the West finds itself in, this is an issue that will come increasingly under the spotlight and scapegoating is inevitable.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 03:31 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by BrowniesRule View Post
I didn't say anything was wrong with the assumption, it's probably what happens in some cases. But I don't think single parent families constitute a perfectly homogeneous group with a fixed trajectory, so it's hard for me to conceive that being a single parent inevitably lead to poverty. My mother raised me alone and I never lacked anything, and I saw kids at school who had two parents who sent them to school with rags for clothes.
It would be too easy to say that two parents can ask for social assistance and make poverty a standard for their kids and grand-kids.
In my mind, just the fact of being a single parent home does not create or perpetuate poverty as much as other factors, be it bad individual choices, the lack of choices (as in being victim of your surroundings), or plain bad luck. But as you're probably aware, it's very hard to generalize because there are so many variables to take into account.
In that mind frame, we can question ourselves forever as to who kills the man who smokes; the cigarette or his use of the cigarette.
I agree with you, there certainly are a lot of variables to continue. We certainly shouldn't attempt to "remedy" the situations based on extreme examples like the Octomom. I believe it is perhaps important to discuss this issue, and other issues involving financial assistance, because we may be making the situation worse in a lot of cases, and because of the cost involved.
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