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Old December 12th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #41

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I agree Blackdog.

For example, your marriage breaks down and you have spent many years raising your kids whilst your husband works, you go for a job with zero experience - do you get the job? Many are not willing to even contemplate employing someone with no experience no matter how willing and how hard working the person is.

If nobody will give a person a chance to train, to better themselves, then nobody has the right to then slander that person as lazy and unwilling to work.

It is much easier to just kick them to the curb and point a finger than it is to actually give a person a chance.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 03:50 AM   #42

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Yes I agree with all the above. When the option for a single person is a minimal income and doing without the latest rubbish or a few vices, vs working a 40 hour week and still not having enough, it's no wonder that there's such a 'benefit culture'. And when it comes to families the obstacles are more than just basic motivation and opportunity of course.

Combine this with the image of politicians and management pocketing so many tens of thousands a year while blatantly scamming all they can with immunity, and it's little wonder either that so many people grow up with no respect or desire to knuckle down and work hard at anything.

True BD about training, there's little choice in between the dole and some unskilled soul-destroying job in the remnants of the manufacturing industry in the UK. Several years ago I applied for a City Council apprenticeship scheme that would have led to training-qualification-work in plumbing, electrics etc - basic council property maintenance. The competition though was something like 500 people for twenty places I think. (I was close on 40 at the time, I don't think that helped )

I'd certainly never judge anybody who genuinely can't find or keep work for whatever reason, but tbh neither will I judge people who just don't see the point.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 04:01 AM   #43

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I find there are two types of people who judge the poor.

1. Those who have never had to struggle or live in the real world.
Let them eat cake, eh? That's the usual solution.


Quote:
2. Those who have struggled, get out of it, then decide they are suddenly better than everyone else and degrade people who are less fortunate.
Ah yes, the professional self made man. He's made it, and by God, doesn't he want everyone to know that? He "never had any help" and "Oh no, there were never any luck involved. It were all me own hard graft, nobody helped me, oh no no..." Ad nauseum.

There's loads of them up here. Plumbers and electricians who think they're part of the aristocracy because they employ a few lads and have a Range Rover. Always in a rage at benefit claimants, immigrants and anyone else not just like them.

Funny, they've been quiet of late, and the range rovers are disappearing, they looked worried and they avoid eye contact with me altogether, since I'm the bastard who told them this was coming that they're delusional if they think it won't affect them.

I don't usually take delight in people's downfall. Well, not much. But in their case, I sincerely hope they end up on the dole for a few years and they can tell everyone it's not their fault and no-one will listen. Nemesis

But you know what confuses them the most? Apart from the "Sun" crossword? The fact that I'm not poor but don't have their mentality.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 04:37 AM   #44
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Good points everyone, I guess I should clarify why I think it is a problem. If the assistance makes it more likely that the child will grow up in poverty, if the assistance helps create a problem, then I think it should be discussed. I am not saying absolutely that it does. Also, we should not forget that these things cannot be afforded forever at the rates of participation we see today, so the humane thing is to address the problem now I think.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:16 AM   #45

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I think the right thing to do was ALWAYS to address the problem, preferably some 2 centuries ago. Western society has always been blighted by 2 things: inequality of opportunity and the simple fact that money does not just buy an easier life, but also massive inequalities of power.

We cannot claim to live in a democracy until this latter is sorted out and we cannot claim to live in a civilised nation until the former is sorted out.

Ironically, it is the benefits claimants and working poor who contributed least to the "credit crunch" nonsense. You need money to get a loan, and a lot more money to get a mortgage and it was the house price lunacy that started it all.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #46

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
I find there are two types of people who judge the poor.

1. Those who have never had to struggle or live in the real world.

2. Those who have struggled, get out of it, then decide they are suddenly better than everyone else and degrade people who are less fortunate.
It seems obvious that the people who "have struggled, g[o]t out of it" should have some valid ideas on how others can do the same. One of their bits of wisdom might be not to accept as truth opinions that others have formed about you.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 09:37 AM   #47

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Originally Posted by RoryOMore View Post
It seems obvious that the people who "have struggled, g[o]t out of it" should have some valid ideas on how others can do the same. One of their bits of wisdom might be not to accept as truth opinions that others have formed about you.
Fair enough but my point was, some people believe that just because 'they did something a certain way' that everyone else should follow suite and their situation fits all - when no situation fits all. No one person is the same or in the same circumstance, so just because one person gets out of poverty does not give them the right to slander others who havn't - as though all situations were identical to theirs.

I know we all judge to one degree or another. But I just really dislike people who have extremely judgemental attitudes and expect everyone to pander to their life story as though they are the pinnacle of saintlyhood. That and the people who have never experienced real life but feel they have an authority on how to tell other people to live theirs.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #48

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Especially if said life-story is a series of lucky instances.

I have a friend who was unemployed for the longest time. Recently he got a minimum wage job. Now, it was sheer blind luck that the store needed someone, sheer blind luck they kept applications from eight months back, and sheer blind luck they picked my inexperienced friend.

So what does he say now? People without jobs aren't trying hard enough, at least that's the vibe I'm getting from him. I oughta knock some sense into him before it's too late.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #49

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I have a friend who was unemployed for the longest time. Recently he got a minimum wage job. Now, it was sheer blind luck that the store needed someone, sheer blind luck they kept applications from eight months back, and sheer blind luck they picked my inexperienced friend.

So what does he say now? People without jobs aren't trying hard enough, at least that's the vibe I'm getting from him. I oughta knock some sense into him before it's too late.
Yes, do him and the world a favour

It's amazing how few people admit to lucky breaks and a hand up.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #50

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Especially if said life-story is a series of lucky instances.

I have a friend who was unemployed for the longest time. Recently he got a minimum wage job. Now, it was sheer blind luck that the store needed someone, sheer blind luck they kept applications from eight months back, and sheer blind luck they picked my inexperienced friend.

So what does he say now? People without jobs aren't trying hard enough, at least that's the vibe I'm getting from him. I oughta knock some sense into him before it's too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
Yes, do him and the world a favour

It's amazing how few people admit to lucky breaks and a hand up.
Maybe there is a god after all, if people can be as reasonable as you guys!
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