Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:21 AM   #31

Naomasa298's Avatar
Pepperonius Maximus
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 20,185

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aulus Plautius View Post
Regarding Starbucks, Google and Apple, if the tax laws of the UK provide they need not pay corporate income tax because of exemptions and what not, then I see nothing morally repugnant that they take advantage of every tax exemption. It is up to the UK to pass laws that would subject these corporations to this tax. There is nothing morally wrong with abiding by the tax laws and taking advantage of the laws as they exist. The morality issue resides with the State enacting those laws.

I would add that though Starbucks, Apple and Google are taking advantage of UK corporate tax law exemptions, these companies do pay UK tax whether in the form of payroll taxes, sales taxes, VAT taxes, property taxes, etc.
What one of these companies, I can't remember which, is doing is that they have a parent company in Ireland. The UK operation then pays most of its profit to the parent company as a "royalty", meaning it goes down as an expense in the UK and is not taxable. The tax is paid in Ireland, at a rate of 12.5% instead of the UK's 22%.
Naomasa298 is online now  
Remove Ads
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:21 AM   #32

Aulus Plautius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Florida
Posts: 1,459

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
It's not that easy, because these international corporations exploit their status to shift their tax payments to the area of their activities where they pay their least. It lies beyond the power of any individual country to prevent this, complex international agreements are requires, and some countries, moreover, make a great deal of money by enabling corporations to do this - which is why Amazon, for instance, pays tax in Luxembourg rather than the UK, where it does much more of its business.
Yes, this is very true. The U.S. has a similar issue of American multinationals relocating their principal offices overseas to avoid paying US corporate taxes as well. However, US tax law allows them to do this. If Congress were to change the tax laws and do away with these loopholes and exemptions then we would be receiving that tax income. Congress need only pass the laws or reform the laws rather to subject these corporations to the U.S. corporate tax.
Aulus Plautius is offline  
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:26 AM   #33

Sicknero's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Here to Eternity
Posts: 4,369

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aulus Plautius View Post
Yes, this is very true. The U.S. has a similar issue of American multinationals relocating their principal offices overseas to avoid paying US corporate taxes as well. However, US tax law allows them to do this. If Congress were to change the tax laws and do away with these loopholes and exemptions then we would be receiving that tax income. Congress need only pass the laws or reform the laws rather to subject these corporations to the U.S. corporate tax.
I guess one of the issues there is that tax issues aside, governments are afraid of scaring companies away from their domestic markets.
Sicknero is offline  
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:26 AM   #34

Vladd's Avatar
vincit omnia veritas
 
Joined: Feb 2011
From: England
Posts: 4,582
Blog Entries: 3

If the governments do not want people to avoid tax by using legal loopholes then the solution is simple. Close the loopholes, simplify the tax system so that these loopholes don't exist. Then go after tax evaders with the gloves off.
Vladd is online now  
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:30 AM   #35

Naomasa298's Avatar
Pepperonius Maximus
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 20,185

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
If the governments do not want people to avoid tax by using legal loopholes then the solution is simple. Close the loopholes, simplify the tax system so that these loopholes don't exist. Then go after tax evaders with the gloves off.
The voice of experience speaks.
Naomasa298 is online now  
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:38 AM   #36

Aulus Plautius's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Florida
Posts: 1,459

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
If the governments do not want people to avoid tax by using legal loopholes then the solution is simple. Close the loopholes, simplify the tax system so that these loopholes don't exist. Then go after tax evaders with the gloves off.
I agree with with your post. It is the will of our elected representatives to enact those changes to the tax code. It may be easier to reform the corporate tax in the US than the UK because the UK may be subject to EU tax agreements. I am not sure about that though.
Aulus Plautius is offline  
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:40 AM   #37

Vladd's Avatar
vincit omnia veritas
 
Joined: Feb 2011
From: England
Posts: 4,582
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
The voice of experience speaks.
Frustated ex taxman I guess
Vladd is online now  
Old December 13th, 2012, 07:12 AM   #38
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: San Diego
Posts: 2,144

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
There are plenty of people who do not fall into the category of "rich" who use legal tax avoidance to minimise the amount of tax they pay.
I am one of them... But there is legal, and proper tax 'reduction'... And there is immoral tax avoidance.

I own my own business. I rightly deduct the costs of running that business so that the amount on which I pay taxes reflects the amount of money that actually goes to Me.

I take my home mortgage deduction, which was inserted into the tax code to make taxes on the middle class more fair, since, unlike the rich, we are forced to buy homes with long term mortgages.


But arcane tax shelters, offshoring your cash to tax free havens, or scams like Mitt Romney's " son of boss" con... Are NOT tax reduction... They are tax evasion.

And Bain capital, under Romney's control, spending tens of millions in lobbying to get the tax on invest,net income lowered to 15%... That is immoral malfeasance acting to corrupt the tax code by e monied elite, for the express purpose of reducing their taxes... Knowing full well that this shifts the burden of paying for the government the Rich are Buying to the shoulders of those less able to afford the cost, and who derive None of these favors, benefits, influence, nor support.


Even after all my "legal" deductions... I ended up paying 32% of my real income - working 14 hour days and 6 day weeks producing.

Mitt Romney made a whopping lot more than I ever have, sitting on his rump, and paid Zero in taxes, because of his fixation on tax evasion.
He Really Did pay zero or nearly zero in taxes... For a decade... And that's why no one will ever get to see his tax returns.

Not only are the wealthy being taxed far less... That far Lessie's only applied to a very small portion of the wealth they actually have.
It's one thing for Romney to SAY he pays 13%... which is in itself ridiculously immoral... But 13% ON WHAT FIGURE?
his returns are secret because, although he took in tens of millions each year... The amount he showed as "taxable" was only a few thousand.

He's a fair tax code... You pay whatever percentile your income share falls into.

The top 5% get 70% of all income... They should Pay 70% in tax.

The bottom 20% get 6% of all income... They should pay 6%.

ETA. With this system, as income inequality becomes less, the tax rates on the rich would automatically lower.
If they took only 40% of all income, as they did in the 1950s, their tax rate would be 40%.

And by this method, the government is taking a uniform share of income across the board...

Last edited by sculptingman; December 13th, 2012 at 08:21 AM.
sculptingman is offline  
Old December 13th, 2012, 09:51 AM   #39

Sicknero's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Here to Eternity
Posts: 4,369

Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptingman View Post
...
He's a fair tax code... You pay whatever percentile your income share falls into.

The top 5% get 70% of all income... They should Pay 70% in tax.

The bottom 20% get 6% of all income... They should pay 6%.

ETA. With this system, as income inequality becomes less, the tax rates on the rich would automatically lower.
If they took only 40% of all income, as they did in the 1950s, their tax rate would be 40%.

And by this method, the government is taking a uniform share of income across the board...
Love it. I nominate you for World President.
Sicknero is offline  
Old December 13th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #40

Black Dog's Avatar
Idiot of the year 2013
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: Damned England
Posts: 8,032
Blog Entries: 2

When the poor have no means to avoid/evade tax, then avoiding/evading tax is a moral issue.

When the rich gain most from that tax system (every Government since 1979 at least has re-distributed wealth upwards, and it cannot be denied that the rich have greater political influence by far and get more for their taxes) and yet fail to pay, then it is a moral issue.

I don't like paying tax, but I do. Not a small amount, either.
Black Dog is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
issue, moral, taxation


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Taxation of Americans and A7X American History 75 August 22nd, 2011 07:20 AM
The Kashmir Issue Lord_of_Gauda Asian History 84 June 22nd, 2011 10:20 AM
Taxation... thoughts, history and views. Cicero Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology 24 February 7th, 2011 07:35 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.